Hey skeptics...

vertigo25 · Post by **vertigo25** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:02 pm

Asher> That's commonly known as Intelligent Design. It's Creationism.

Out of curiosity, why do you believe that?

TiredUnhappy · Post by **TiredUnhappy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:09 am

Honestly I don't see a problem in believing that "God" or a "god" guided science to what it is. It is, however, a blind belief. Entirely faith based. Alot of people want to believe in a higher power, so let them believe what they want. As long as they don't oppress others with it, it should be fine. Evolution removes God from every aspect of existance, which is hard for someone who devoutly believes in the bible to "swallow". The problem with arguing creationism vs. evolution is that you have science vs. something you can't prove. And until you can prove that God exists, it practically negates all arguements and discussions. You can't prove that your scientific "guide" existed, so how do you expect the rest to work. All you're left with is...evolution. That is where faith, beliefs, etc would come into play. Each persons, personal choice to believe whatever they want about life and the afterlife. It works then. With faith.

Paladin656 · Post by **Paladin656** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:43 am

We can prove that G/god(s) exist. Lets kill everyone and see where we all end up.

vertigo25 · Post by **vertigo25** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:44 am

TiredUnhappy wrote:Honestly I don't see a problem in believing that "God" or a "god" guided science to what it is. It is, however, a blind belief. Entirely faith based. Alot of people want to believe in a higher power, so let them believe what they want. As long as they don't oppress others with it, it should be fine. Evolution removes God from every aspect of existance, which is hard for someone who devoutly believes in the bible to "swallow". The problem with arguing creationism vs. evolution is that you have science vs. something you can't prove. And until you can prove that God exists, it practically negates all arguements and discussions. You can't prove that your scientific "guide" existed, so how do you expect the rest to work. All you're left with is...evolution. That is where faith, beliefs, etc would come into play. Each persons, personal choice to believe whatever they want about life and the afterlife. It works then. With faith.

Actually evolution does not rule out a god, a designer, what have you. It simply does not mention one, and shows how none is necessary for life to have come into existence. I don't believe (someone correct me if they know otherwise) that there's any scientific texts on evolution that even mention a god, or any supernatural force.

ID, on the other hand specifically sets out to disprove evolution, or at the very least tries to show that evolution is so flawed as to be invalid.

Atheism, on the other hand, does in fact say there is no god. Atheism is not a science, however. Even though most atheist believe that the basics of science, rationalism, and intellectualism are the way to the truth.

The truth is that science has fulfilled it's burden of proof as to whether a god or designer is necessary. The answer is: no.

As to people believing what they want so long as it does not oppress other people, I'm beginning to side with Sam Harris. I'm not so sure that structured religion doesn't oppress people by it's very nature. At the very least, the kind that doesn't helps promote the kind that does.

Incidentally, "alot" is not a word. "Allot" means to distribute. If you are referring to a nonspecific but large amount of something, the term is "a lot."

vertigo25 · Post by **vertigo25** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:52 am

I'm wondering, BTW...

How does the thread title "Hey Skeptics" end up translating to: "Hey Everyone, please post your theological views here," or "Please come in and tell the skeptics how wrong they are?"

Given that KG is a general purpose board, I guess it's somewhat forgivable, I just don't understand what the prompt was.

Bigun · Post by **Bigun** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:40 am

humanponygirl213 wrote:
Bigun wrote:
humanponygirl213 wrote:I'd like to change the beliefs of people who believe that football is awesome...... VOLS SUCK!!!

*gets shot at*

I'll drink to that

What? Football/especially VOLS sucking, or me getting shot at? Haha.....

VOLS and American Football

TiredUnhappy · Post by **TiredUnhappy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:15 am

vertigo25 wrote:
TiredUnhappy wrote:Honestly I don't see a problem in believing that "God" or a "god" guided science to what it is. It is, however, a blind belief. Entirely faith based. Alot of people want to believe in a higher power, so let them believe what they want. As long as they don't oppress others with it, it should be fine. Evolution removes God from every aspect of existance, which is hard for someone who devoutly believes in the bible to "swallow". The problem with arguing creationism vs. evolution is that you have science vs. something you can't prove. And until you can prove that God exists, it practically negates all arguements and discussions. You can't prove that your scientific "guide" existed, so how do you expect the rest to work. All you're left with is...evolution. That is where faith, beliefs, etc would come into play. Each persons, personal choice to believe whatever they want about life and the afterlife. It works then. With faith.

Actually evolution does not rule out a god, a designer, what have you. It simply does not mention one, and shows how none is necessary for life to have come into existence. I don't believe (someone correct me if they know otherwise) that there's any scientific texts on evolution that even mention a god, or any supernatural force.

ID, on the other hand specifically sets out to disprove evolution, or at the very least tries to show that evolution is so flawed as to be invalid.

Atheism, on the other hand, does in fact say there is no god. Atheism is not a science, however. Even though most atheist believe that the basics of science, rationalism, and intellectualism are the way to the truth.

The truth is that science has fulfilled it's burden of proof as to whether a god or designer is necessary. The answer is: no.

As to people believing what they want so long as it does not oppress other people, I'm beginning to side with Sam Harris. I'm not so sure that structured religion doesn't oppress people by it's very nature. At the very least, the kind that doesn't helps promote the kind that does.

Incidentally, "alot" is not a word. "Allot" means to distribute. If you are referring to a nonspecific but large amount of something, the term is "a lot."

No, it doesn't rule out a god/the God/etc. It does, as you stated, rule out the necessity for one. Because you can't prove a god exists, then all you're left with is evolution guided by..science. Which is...evolution.

Also, thank you for taking the time to correct a simple typo. I'm very proud of your powers of observation. That's a keen eye you have there. Once again, I thank you.

TiredUnhappy · Post by **TiredUnhappy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:18 am

vertigo25 wrote:I'm wondering, BTW...

How does the thread title "Hey Skeptics" end up translating to: "Hey Everyone, please post your theological views here," or "Please come in and tell the skeptics how wrong they are?"

Given that KG is a general purpose board, I guess it's somewhat forgivable, I just don't understand what the prompt was.

Somewhere along the lines, someone brought up creationism. How you are offended by people posting their opinions is beyond me. I personally never claimed any of the skeptics were right or wrong. I just added my .2 /whispers It's a message board, that's what you do.

Asher · Post by **Asher** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:33 am

why do i believe what i do? it gives me peace..makes me sleep at night..it's my own answers for the universe and im down with ti..guess its about all anyone can hope to persue in the end.

im as skeptic as the next person about certain things..and i enjoy reading/listening to broad views about things..as i do try to avoid the tunnel vision some people of my faith tend to get.

vertigo25 · Post by **vertigo25** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:52 am

TiredUnhappy

Wowsers. You're kind of a hostile thing aren't you?

A) I never said I was offended. I wondered what the motivation was.

B) I highly doubt it was a typo. If it was, you'd be amazed at the power of a little thing called spell-check.

I'm now switching gears:

Let's pretend I actually am offended at the people who seem to think that this is the thread for posting 2-3 sentence "what I believe" posts. Lets' also pretend I''m like them and believe whatever I want because I'm allowed to, and as long as I'm allowed to, I don't really need to subject that belief to any kind of logical thought... it just sounds like a neat idea to me.

I believe that believing in God makes you a retard.

Now... remember... you can't get offended by that. We all have the right to believe what we want, and my belief doesn't oppress anyone. This is a message board, and I can post that belief anywhere I'd like. Also keep in mind that if you call my belief into question, that's a sure indication that you are offended by it, and I am allowed to then become hostile towards you.

footprintzinthesand · Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:16 am

erased--- I love the Heavenly Creator.

Asher · Post by **Asher** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:18 am

Post by **DarkVader** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:22 am

vertigo25 wrote:Incidentally, "alot" is not a word. "Allot" means to distribute. If you are referring to a nonspecific but large amount of something, the term is "a lot."

Thank you!

It makes me want to smack people when they use "alot" - but could you imagine the fuss if I actually started banning people for it?

It's tempting anyway... :fuckoff:

footprintzinthesand · Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:31 am

Compare these 2 "quotes"...

vertigo25 wrote:Incidentally, "alot" is not a word. "Allot" means to distribute. If you are referring to a nonspecific but large amount of something, the term is "a lot."

vertigo25 wrote:It's very well know that when scientists use the word "theory" t far different than how it typically used.

...and you're going to "bitch" at someone for combining the words "a lot" into "alot"? (I wanted to say something about it yesterday, but I repressed it....)

Wellll, don't feel too bad, i'm also a spelling hypocrite... I can't really say much..... I also use the nonexistent word "alot"........

DarkVader wrote:
Thank you!

It makes me want to smack people when they use "alot" - but could you imagine the fuss if I actually started banning people for it?

It's tempting anyway...

That'd be some shit... I think you wouldn't have much of a forum left....

TiredUnhappy · Post by **TiredUnhappy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:07 am

vertigo25 wrote:TiredUnhappy

Wowsers. You're kind of a hostile thing aren't you?

A) I never said I was offended. I wondered what the motivation was.

B) I highly doubt it was a typo. If it was, you'd be amazed at the power of a little thing called spell-check.

I'm now switching gears:

Let's pretend I actually am offended at the people who seem to think that this is the thread for posting 2-3 sentence "what I believe" posts. Lets' also pretend I''m like them and believe whatever I want because I'm allowed to, and as long as I'm allowed to, I don't really need to subject that belief to any kind of logical thought... it just sounds like a neat idea to me.

I believe that believing in God makes you a retard.

Now... remember... you can't get offended by that. We all have the right to believe what we want, and my belief doesn't oppress anyone. This is a message board, and I can post that belief anywhere I'd like. Also keep in mind that if you call my belief into question, that's a sure indication that you are offended by it, and I am allowed to then become hostile towards you.

I'm not being hostile towards you. Let me apologize on account of my sarcastic nature. My comments were not meant to be taken as "hostile". If I wanted to call you an asshole, I would call you an asshole. I don't judge people on account of their difference of opinion though. I am accepting of what people say and eager to listen. I don't remember the last time saying thank you, not once, but twice, was supposed to indicate hostility. Nowhere in what I've said have I been at all hostile towards anyone. Sarcastic, yes. Hostile, not at all. Thank you once again, for assuming on my behalf that I have some sort of vendetta against you personally. For the record, I do not. As for typos and spell check, since when is this even about that? You talk about how people can get on tangent, or "how topics can get to this", but here you are doing it. Well, to address the tangent you started. I don't use spell check. I don't generally care about little things like missing a space here and there, as long as the reader is still able to somewhat interpret it. I guess I'm not as anal about things as a few people on this board. When I read what someone says, I'm looking at the point of what they said, not their grammatical errors or typos. Call it lazy, or after 1 AM (I have a child, I usually go to bed earlier.) Okay, so now that we've covered the typo to end all typos, let me now address the rest of your post.

If you believe that people are retarded for believing there is a god, more power to you.

I'm not offended, but comments like :"Please come in and tell the skeptics how wrong they are?" make it seem like you have been offended by people with religious views posting in this thread. You asked how it got to that, I answered with "someone mentioned creationism." I guess you need to understand that on a message board people post and sometimes the original topic strays a bit due to tangents and off topic posting. People then post on top of that and then you get to where we are. We're arguing about a typo, and whether or not people should be offended by opinions. Your opinion doesn't offend me. I don't think my opinions, or the opinions of anyone on this board should offend you. Remember, just because it's mine, yours, or anyone elses opinion, doesn't mean it supercedes anyone elses. We're all entitled to them, and as long as you aren't going out of your way to be aggressive and personally attacking others.. no harm done. Calling god-fearing individuals retards is about the only thing that could classify as aggressive in the thread, as far as I can see. Stating that there's no harm in believing in god, in no way attacks skeptics or atheists. I didn't say they were wrong, I just don't see the harm in it if others choose to have a religious belief. If you do, more power to you.

Now, I think I covered all the bases here and broke it down as simply as I possibly could. I left out as much room for error as possible, so if you still misinterpret me I no longer consider it "my problem". I will once again say that I am not anti-your-opinion. I am open minded and enjoyed reading a good portion of this thread. I apologize, again, if what I said wasn't to your liking. I can't, however, take it back because it is how I feel and in no way violates any person here.

Well, I'm off to carry out my day. Take care all, goodbye.

vertigo25 · Post by **vertigo25** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:39 am

HPG> I wasn't intending to "bitch." I was trying to inform TiredUnhappy so that she could use the word correctly. It is, after all, one of the most common mistakes made. I, too, *used* to use "alot" until someone corrected me. I can even remember who it was (the person who "designed" Knoxgothic), and when it was (when she read a blog post of mine). I also remember feeling incredibly stupid, but not feeling like the person was bitching or being mean or that I had to try to defend myself. I also didn't have to try to defend it with "it was just a typo!" It was ignorance on my part plain and simple, and I learned better. If it was just a typo, then TiredUnhappy could have easily just said "I actually know that. It was a typo" instead of getting all bent out of shape.

But to return to the topic at hand...

humanponygirl213 wrote:Personally, I believe no mere human really KNOWS whether there is a "god" or not... Not speaking of the "some old guy on hallucinogens wrote the bible" type of "god", or "the big man in the clouds" type of "god"...

That's not a personal belief. That's a fact, and you would have a hard time finding a skeptic who would disagree with you. Skeptics do not assert that there is no God. Almost all skeptics will say that the statistical evidence for God is not only low, but consistently diminishes over time.

humanponygirl213 wrote:Really, nobody on the fucking planet has the right to say that "No god exists, nothing like that exists... I can't see it, so it isn't real. And I know all!!!"

Really? Then why do you have the right to believe what you believe, or to even to make that statement? I thought we had already established that all beliefs are fine and dandy unless they oppress other people. Just you making that statement is an attempt to oppress someone else... at the very least to silence their views.

humanponygirl213 wrote:Do people think that everything just fell out of the sky, and if they do believe that, where the hell did the sky come from? Where did the germs/apes/wtf-ever come from that we evolved from?

The irony of your words are fantastic. Science can actually prove (and has eliminated all scientific doubt) the exact origins of the things you mention. It's putting God into the equation that actually makes it akin to everything just falling from the sky.

And... where did God come from?

humanponygirl213 wrote:Nobody has all the answers... Sure, it's cool to be skeptic about religion, etc. etc. etc,

Really? Did you know that people who identify themselves as skeptics or rationalists are almost universally assumed to be atheists and that atheists are the single most mistrusted group in America?

Yeah... that's why I'm a skeptic. Because it's *cool*. It couldn't possibly be that I honestly believe that rational thinking is the only way we will ever know true peace.

humanponygirl213 wrote:but it's really nobody's place to say, "There is no god, there is nothing." ...

Then why is it anybody's place to say there is?

vertigo25 · Post by **vertigo25** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:44 am

TUH> I think there's been just as much misinterpretation on your part as there has been on mine.

Oh. And thank *you* for cluing me in on the ins and outs of how internet message boards work. I really appreciate your help with that. I'm really very new to all of this.

What is it all you internet super users say? "Noob?" Is that right?

Ha ha. That stuff just cracks me up.

Maybe you could give me some links to places that could tell me more about the 'net.

Post by **DarkVader** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:54 am

Stop being jerks.

Don't make me lock this thread.

footprintzinthesand · Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:05 pm

erased--- I love the Heavenly Creator.

footprintzinthesand · Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:06 pm

DarkVader wrote:Stop being jerks.

Don't make me lock this thread.

No jerkism here... :-)