DEC 4 TEMPLE

[tat2jay]

So, basically you're saying no: flashing, biting, groping, licking, making out, spanking, mooning, carressing, stripping, or behaving in an enthusiastic or "arousing" manner. Dude, since when did Temple become Church? Seriously, this is a night for people to let go, shed a few inhibitions (with the help of overpriced and watered down alchohol), and have a little fun. Or so I imagined. Now, I've been a might gentle up till now, largely due to having a general respect for the people who've put this together, but this is getting right near out of hand.

i am saying if it involves genital contact (mouth to nipple is genital contact in my opinion) then take it home or somewhere else -
even the strip clubs dont allow that.

do NOT put words into my mouth.

your definition of the night is "for people to let go, shed a few inhibitions (with the help of overpriced and watered down alcohol), and have a lil fun."

my definition (and this is the right one, cuz it is the night i concieved and built) is a night for music and socializing (not public sex - i do NOT want to get shut down by johnny law man) and broadening musical horizons - the scene may not be about the music in your opinion, but Temple is. if its too much like church for you then i am sorry.

if you think the drinks are overpriced and watered down then maybe you should visit fairbanks to see about proper drink pricing, or open your own club and host a "gothic" night - its not easy but if you choose to do so i wish you the greatest of luck, knoxville is a fantastic community for growth and expansion

i dont mean to crash down on you so hard, but you seem very dissatisfied with what you have found at temple, for that i am sorry and i hope you find somthing that better suits your tastes -

i will continue to try to put on a night that the majority of people can have a good time in a setting that makes as many people as possible comfortable -

as always i am open to suggestions and comments

[tat2jay]

Again, my apologies for Josh & his dragon. I assure you that it won't happen again.

if josh was the dancing maniac with the pet lizard i want to say to him that im sorry about the lost lizard episode, that does suck -
but i also want to say that numerous times throught out the night it was said that he was the living incarnation of the spirt of Temple, he emersed himself in the music, truely it appeared as if he was totally and completely enjoying himself - bring that boy back i say!!!

[LordHades]

No terrible offense was intended, Man. I do respect what you've put together, in my own twisted little way. As far as watered down drinks, I only drink coke, so I was merely going off the comments I have heard from others stating such. No personal experience, so admittedly not a point I can honestly make, and it is withdrawn with proper chastisement accepted.

As far as the rules, I can certainly well respect that. Law is law and there's naught to do about it other than become a lawyer or politician. I have been critical, admittedly. On the other hand you have repeatedly asked for criticism. Do I realize that I'm in a minority and not your target audience? Sure, kind of hard not to But that's not going to stop me from making my points when asked. Who knows, some of them might even be reasonable.

Once again, I respect you and the work you've done, and I'll even expand it to something noone likely imagines.. I respect Buttercup, her position, I believe as an employee of Amnesia, and as one of the leading persona's in the scene. I may not always agree with the two of you, but that doesn't mean I don't respect either of you.

Now, what I don't respect is the attitude in her post. If things got out of hand, approach it like an adult, or if you can't, find someone else who can. If you want to make rules outside the legal limitations you've already stated, make them and post them. I know alot of people don't want to deal with the beauracracy of it, but I personally would prefer a clear definition of "acceptible behavior" rather than deal with mercurial whim.

As far as how satisfying I find my nights at temple.. Honestly, that's entirely personal, and has no real relavence. The first night I came was fairly infuriating, but I needed to blow off steam and that was my chance. This last time was alot groovier, I was of much lighter a mood, and even the lost dragon didn't dampen my spirits What will the next one bring? Who knows.

As far as a setting that makes as many people as possible comfortable.. Well, you'll find most my feedback centers precisely on that subject. However, I realize that the majority of it is quite frankly outside of your control. Does that mean I think you've failed? Hardly. You've done something I can't even begin to grasp the complexity of in putting this night together, and the sheer fact that it is so popular, and that even those not normally inclined to attend such, myself foremost among them, is to be taken as a sign that yes, you have succeeded most definitly.

Now, on a more personal note, I owe you apologies for something I have experienced, and truly abhor.. Being misquoted. I posted when I was rather pissed, and my words got away from me at certain junctures, most notably that opening. In truth, I hadn't meant to criticize you, my words were meant for a more fitting target, but I can see how it came off that way. I respect the restraint you showed with your initial post, and that which you have shown since. It shows great character and maturity in the face of emotional outrage, and it is appreciated I am certain by all involved.

[Asher]

-crickets chirp benignly-

[QueenOfTheFlock]

-crickets chirp benignly-

i lubs you

[Onibubba]

People could be stripping and fucking on the dance floor. I wouldn't know, because I'm not watching them. I'm too busy drinkin and bullshitin. Just because a strobe light is on does not make you the focus of everyone's attention.

Yeah, PDAs are retch inducing, but I don't think we can enforce behavior. People are going to get drunk, start feeling all sex-ay, and flash some skin. If you like it, slip 'em a dollar. If you don't, throw a drink on them

Hope the bearded dragon is OK. She was a real cutie. But you have to take care of her!!! She is dependent on you! I do wish people would keep their pets at home for their own safety. Please.

[LordHades]

Hope the bearded dragon is OK. She was a real cutie. But you have to take care of her!!! She is dependent on you! I do wish people would keep their pets at home for their own safety. Please

.

Unfortunately Josh isn't on the boards yet, but I'm sure a concerned party party can pass it along. Although I have no doubt whatsoever that he's already gotten a couple earfulls over it. Not that I'm disagreeing, mind you

[judas gnb]

dont know if anybody heard me but i was shouting for certin folks to stop with grossness had anybody been fucking on the floor i would have gone outta my way to make it stop i shall post more when i have time

[Mother Mo]

This seems like a vocabulary issue to me. Increased modesty is being requested, & those who request it have the right to. There are laws governing the issue, & other peoples' sensibilities to consider. That's perfectly cool. What isn't cool is name calling. I'm not going to quote the terms used, but they were antagonistic, to be sure. There's no need for that. Being offended does not give anyone the right to be insulting back... the motivation, perhaps, but not the right.

I'm sure no one has meant to hurt anyone's feelings or to start any shit, but that's what has happened, so let's all take a moment to switch those internal censors back on & remember to be polite about stuff. I may have stepped out of bounds too, so I sicerely apologize if I have given anyone any cause for offense. No matter if we agree or disagree, I love you guys. I know you all to be good folks & I'm happy to accomodate you in any way I can, as I know most of you are with me & others in our little community too.

Now play nice, babies. Momma loves you.

[Hardcoregirl]

So, basically you're saying no: flashing, biting, groping, licking, making out, spanking, mooning, carressing, stripping, or behaving in an enthusiastic or "arousing" manner. Dude, since when did Temple become Church?

Erm, when did a night for dancing, socializing, drinking and listening to music become a private orgy? They don't even allow this stuff IN strip clubs, why would we want it here? I don't pay to go into clubs to see that shit, if I'm paying, I want quality, professional entertainers.

Please keep your fucking clothes on

Hallelujah Sister, Preach it! I have seen way more topless guys and their boxers at Temple than I have ANY desire for in my life. You wanna start shutting down people showing their goods, start with the hooligans getting bills stuffed down their briefs.. Oh wait, all you girls seem to like that.. Hrmm, maybe there's something to it.

I can't say that I really enjoy topless guys dancing either. However, even though I think its sexist, men are allowed to go shirtless and it be socially acceptable, however women are not. I only saw a couple guys dance and *act* like strippers, but I never noticed any men shirtless

And even then, let me remind you that public nudity is illegal unless you are at a private party,

You might be right on that, but since its not YOUR private party, I think general rules of conduct for your average public place selling alcohol should be applied.

Not being of the XX gene pool, I ain't got the grounds to say, but from what I've heard there were quite a few ladies that found her more than a little appealing. So I really suppose it depends on the company you're standing in, doesn't it?

Hrm..I heard far more men and women expressing their disgust over it...I guess I don't talk to everyone though...but...in talking to women and men that have been supporting these type events and the forums for years, I have to say that the majority of people who's opinions I care about were not enjoying the show.

girl, but I saw a girl whip out her nipple and someone else procede to suck on it and I almost puked

Yeah, some of that's just not jiving with the "I Love Boobies" line.. Like Military Intelligence, it just don't make sense. Perhaps you have some underlying issues that should be examined.. Did you have any issues with your mother?

Everyone knows I love boobies, but all boobies are not created equal, nor is any old place appropriate for showing them off.
No, I'm sorry, Freud was an idiot and not much of a scientist. Perhaps the issues lie with someone who feels it is necessary to do such things in public?

Thats NASTY, keep it in the bedroom or go out to your car and get it on.

Heh, sure thing, as soon as I find a partner. Say, are you lonely? Aside from the nose thing looking like you got a shiny booger hanging out, you're pretty cute, and I dig the cowboy hat.

Well, perhaps the one who lets you suck on their nipples in public would be up for it.
Lonely, nope. And as for my septum piercing, I've had far more men and women who I'm actually attracted to tell me that its hot. Aside from looking like the lovechild of Dahmer and Stephen King (not my words, a friend of mine's) I wouldn't touch your creepy ass with a ten foot latex covered pole.
And you seemed like such a nice, respectful and intelligent guy up to this point.

Being half dressed is one thing...stripping down to your underwear is quite another....

Tell it to the guys dropping their shirts and trousers on stage. There are things a guy just doesn't need to know about another guy. The size of his package is paramount among these.

I will do that if I so witness it.

It doesn't look like self confidence to me...it looks self deprecating and skanky.

And I've gotta say, this isn't appearing "goth" to me, it's appearing conservative and anal. And we know how you dig the anal.

Obviously you don't know "goth" from a hole in the ground. I'm about as liberal as they come and, anal, not in the manner in which you speak, I just hold those whose company I am in to high standards of human behavior...

Please, behave in good taste...you are serving as an example to strangers and newbies and out-of-towners as to how classy our group is.

Classy! Well I'll be, when did I wander into Rich Bitch land? I thought this was a time to have fun.. Some of us aren't all that into hanging out in the clique's or making like the WalMart greeters. And that girl has made these things a helluva lot more fun than any of the above for more than one person.

Perhaps you should go hang out an a bar like "corn pone" or "raymonds place," hell, Michaels may even be more your speed. I am a poor college student and single mother, by no means a rich bitch, but sorry if I don't want others to think our group is made up of white trash. I think a lot of us have put a lot into this over the years and we don't want to lose people because some people can't behave when their mommies let them out to play.

As for my job, Jay pays me to keep half an eye on the door and get free drinks off guys who send them my way. What a horrid job. I don't think I really "greet" anyone, I take their money.

Have some self respect and others will respect you.

I gotta wonder when the term "self respect" came to mean "bowing to peer pressure", or "submitting to the status quo" cause I sure remember a different definition. Something about being your own person, doing your own thing... And somthing about goths.. what was it.. Oh yeah.. Acceptance..

Well, why don't you walk around half naked? Are you bowing to peer pressure and submitting to the status quo? I believe if you serve alchohol you are not to show your nipple...thats the law...damn that status quo!
I never claimed to accept anyone if they act like morons. Just because we are more accepting than the hollister kids doesn't mean we don't have any standards...

Don't bring your pets either....unless they are human and on a leash...

Fair enoughh, now you were at the door, if it was a problem, why not fix it then?

Actually, he was already there when I got there or perhaps I would have. Not only is it horrible for the pet, I'm pretty sure reptiles carry Hepatitis, which is a health hazard to everyone, AND the place serves food, so it's prolly not a good idea.

I think thats all I got for now...

Ahh c'mon now, don't stop yet! You're only half a verse away from "Think of the Children!"

Well, I do believe that once an image enters your brain, it never leaves. Thats why I don't look at various types of hardcore porn or images of extreme violence. Don't engage in any actions that will result in someone saying, "next time I run out of birth control, I'll think of that."

[Hardcoregirl]

Mo-

I know you had nothing to do with the reptile, no problem...I just feel sorry for it. Make sure your friend comes out again, without the zoo

Also, I don't want to imply that anyone is a skank. I was just meaning that people do judge you on your behaviors and I'd hate for a girl to get a reputation that she didn't earn fair and square...lol. No one knows her, only her actions in public...and there were at least 15 people remarking on it.

Perhaps I should have immediately made Jay or someone aware of the action, but I figured I'd just say something here to avoid someone getting kicked out.

Its not like this is the first time this has happened. Last temple I was at the front door and saw the same girl having her thonged ass openly groped (if she hadn't been wearing hosiery he probably woudl have gone farther) by a guy and I did not find it appealing as I was eating at the time.

I've heard she's a really sweet girl, I just don't want her to make some fatal mistakes in our group. Don't mistake sexual attention for positive attention...

I didn't mean for her feelings to get hurt, I'm glad she comes out and has a good time, I just want her to try to keep the sex acts at home, in the car, or even in the bathroom...

As you know, I usually say what others are thinking but afraid to say.....such is my lot in life, one of those alpha bitch monkeys..

[Asher]

I hate to take sides..wait..no i dont..hehe.

Being a Libra i am all about the fairness, and i have to say i agree with Buttercup, aside from it just being completely Jerry Springer [couth -is- an admirable trait] i have seen clubs get fines big enough to cripple their business for similar crap. Word gets around fast ..just keep that in mind.

[LordHades]

While the "positive" post wasn't addressed to me, I'll address it over the the negative simply because it seems more productive that way. I can quite appreciate your point of view, now that it's stated clearly and without the hostile attitude shown previously. I quite frankly reacted, as I tend to, to defend someone who has shown me kindness and friendship who was apparently being attacked. Much of what I said was quite simply petty and gratuitous, but I was somewhat pissed at the time, so that's to be expected. I quite frankly have always considered you an intelligent, interesting, and level-headed person from your postings on the boards, and was given sincere pause before I posted so inflammatory a series of statements. The sheer outrageous fashion of some of them, most notably the commentary on your septum piercing, still gives me a mild chuckle, and I had hoped to some degree that in reading, folk would understand that I was lashing out at the attitude of your post, not necessarily its content. That things got out of hand is unquestioned at this point. I'll be happy to offer up an apology to any offended parties, should they be willing to simply make me aware that they feel that they were insulted. As for the lady in question, she is indeed a sweet girl, as all who have taken the time to get to know her can doubtlessly attest, and you might even have more in common with her than you realize. I find getting to know people is really the most effective way of understanding them, and helping them with any problems they might have, and can even give you a chance to alter your own perceptions if you choose. As far as your commentary towards me, while I realize much of it was meant to be personally offensive, I tend to have a thicker skin in regards to myself than to abuse being directed at my friends, and I did rightfully start it, so no hard feelings are kept here over anything that has occured. Perhaps I can extend the figurative olive branch and buy you a drink some time

[Hardcoregirl]

Was that an apology, or just mean to sorta sound like one?

Yes, you were personally offensive to me, so I insulted you back. I could find something to insult about anyone if they pissed me off enough, even my own grandmother...so don't anyone get their feelings hurt. I didn't get mine hurt, you just saw my claws.

I speak my mind and often speak it without "walking on eggshells" because if someone isn't my friend, I usually don't care if I piss them off. I thought the original statements were really rather tame for me....I was really trying to be nice about it...I didn't even name names...*shrug*

And now, even though I pissed a couple of people off, perhaps going out to Temple will be more enjoyable for the majority. Sometimes you must make sacrifices for the greater good.

[The Fallen]

Mmm nothing like lamb fresh from the sacrificial table of Buttercup (even if it is a tofu lamb)
But anyways, you wankers and wankettes, look here. I'm gonna spin yer bloody socks off (and lets hope thats all that comes off) so remember its a party, have fun and be responsible, we will have guests from Nashville so lets show them how its done.

[Codeine Coma]

All I got to say is....
Damn...Glad I don't go out anymore.

[LordHades]

Was that an apology, or just mean to sorta sound like one?

Yes, you were personally offensive to me, so I insulted you back. I could find something to insult about anyone if they pissed me off enough, even my own grandmother...so don't anyone get their feelings hurt. I didn't get mine hurt, you just saw my claws.

I speak my mind and often speak it without "walking on eggshells" because if someone isn't my friend, I usually don't care if I piss them off. I thought the original statements were really rather tame for me....I was really trying to be nice about it...I didn't even name names...*shrug*

And now, even though I pissed a couple of people off, perhaps going out to Temple will be more enjoyable for the majority. Sometimes you must make sacrifices for the greater good.

Hrmm.. Oddly enough, I think we might just find ourselves in agreement. Let's just make sure.

We were both fairly bitchy at some point, or what passes for it in the masculine sense..
But neither of us was terribly offended, because we really don't know eachother.
We both got a little riled, but neither of us feels much in the way of resentment over it.
Neither of us is particularly shy about saying what they think, so long as anyone offended is personally irrelavent.
And finally we both consider it over.

Does that pretty much lie in accordance with your view of the situation? If so, I think we can consider this spurt of drama officially closed If not, well, I think by this point we can probably hash out any differences without cluttering up the boards with it, as what's being "debated" is no longer a topic of public concern.

[karmakaze]

We were both fairly bitchy at some point, or what passes for it in the masculine sense..
But neither of us was terribly offended, because we really don't know eachother.
We both got a little riled, but neither of us feels much in the way of resentment over it.
Neither of us is particularly shy about saying what they think, so long as anyone offended is personally irrelavent.

Just to toss in my 2 cents...

You have the most sarcastic and condescending apologies I have ever seen. The arguments you have put forward is lacking real intelligent thought and you only appear to be arguing for the sake of it. You are showing your age.

I tell you this, because i would want someone to tell me this.

[LordHades]

You have the most sarcastic and condescending apologies I have ever seen. The arguments you have put forward is lacking real intelligent thought and you only appear to be arguing for the sake of it. You are showing your age.

Actually, that wasn't an apology. That was a summary of a potentially agreed upon understanding. Had I wanted to apologize, I'd do it for something I felt I did wrong, which is why I offered apologies to Jay for misquoting him, and offered to apologize to anyone who was offended at Temple. Not all peace agreements need end with contented reconciliation. Simply because I acted like an ass does not mean I feel my reactions were unjutified, in much the same way that Buttercup has no second thoughts over her reaction towards me. I simply propose that we agree that it doesn't really matter to either of us, and is taking up too much space on a thread that it really doesn't belong in. So to you, and to everyone else who really feels overly inclined to question my attitude, please do it in PM. I'm sure Jay is finding this uttelry tedious by this point. If PM is not of your preference, you will also note that I have both AIM and Yahoo listed as contact options, and you are welcome to use either of those. That being said, I'll no longer be responding, or indeed paying attention to, any furtherance of drama on this thread. Enough is enough. people, hate me or love me, it's an issue with me by this point, not with Temple. Take it up with me.

[Mercurygriffin]

Fucking Drama, God Damned Spot Light.