in general, Goth kids are a hell of a lot more open to new ideas and the bigger picture

that's a BIG in general

while i am not - and have never been - christian, it is nice to see that some people out there realize that a taste in music, clothing, lifestyle etc doesn't have to affect their religion... and vice versa.

as for metaphysics... IMNSHO they have as much to do with religion as emo has to do with creativity. which, if you know my take on that at all, is very close to a division of zero.

southern U.S. christians make good music

the like country/bluegrass spiritual songs
and the token black southern baptists choirs

damn good music
despite the content


i don't really care for any religion
but the strength and emotion in a lot of those recordings is mind blowing

Well, hey I am an eastern rite (basically orthodox) catholic by upbringing...and their is a lot of gothy stuff there too (Ikons, incense) so whatever christain tradition rocks your boat. I still go to that church, but I also think it would be enriching to have a goth "church" too...hence the general aim of this post. Its definitely not to impose beliefs, or disuade, or convert anyone from thier beliefs. More to acknowledge/share/express already existing ones, even if, in some cases, and for a variety of reasons, they may be surpressed/dormant.

the old Catholic churches here are in gothic style architecture. does that count for anything?

im only kidding, by the way...

im old form myself
dont believe in religous factions (kevin smiths best term).

but to each their own.
i take it so far i dont go to churches because i think that church should have stayed a conversation about religion and not a building.
but im guilty of being seen in the occasion church

I am Christian, and I applaud your efforts, but I doubt my schedule would permit my attendance.
I might visit once or twice depending on the timing and the vibe I get from others at the gathering.
I'm not so sure that everyone with interest could get on the same page...

Thanks for the support. In a group of folks as diverse as this, it may be a challenge to create fellowship that appeals to every person all the time, but I think if there is genuine desire for this we will figure something out. Hope your schedule allows your participation, whatever we come up with.....

For me many events led to my fall from christianity....would you all believe that I was actually a baptist youth min. Yea, that was great until I caught one of the teens in my class screwing my Woman. I havent had the time to check out these sites....but I dont know if I really want to

I believe in nothing Lebowski *drops ferret into the holy water*.

i think this is a pretty neat idea. you said something about praise and worship songs? i'd love to hear a spooky industrial version of amazing grace. word

downbeforetheworld wrote:i think this is a pretty neat idea. you said something about praise and worship songs? i'd love to hear a spooky industrial version of amazing grace. word

johnny cash's version always scared me as a child

I'll admit I'm in love with the gothic architecture of roman Catholic cathedrals. Last time I was downtown Atlanta and had nothing to do for an hour or so, I was walking around and saw people going into the Sacred Heart Catholic church cathedral. I thought it would be fun to go take mass. I was hoping for more. The sermon that the priest had prepared was the one from that movie "The Last Temptation of Christ". I was really looking forward to the sermon, but then I got a call from Russo, and I had to go, because her Jeopardy tryout was over.
I was raised Baptist, and I would like to experience the whole catholic church thing again sometime, as it did seem pretty interesting and the theatrics of the whole ceremony seems appealing to me.

Also, in the Baptist church I grew up going to, wine was a big no-no. We would take "communion" only once a year, the week before Easter, and instead of wine we would have grape juice. Now, from what I understand, in the bible Jesus and his home-boys drank wine, like, all the time. He even changed water into wine once. Why else would he do that other than so he and his homeboys could get crunk? The Baptists I grew up with never seem to have an explanation for that. Not just getting drunk, but drinking alcohol in general was considered sinful. These are the same people who later on wore "What Would Jesus Do" tee-shirts and such.
Well, I ask, what would Jesus brew?

Seeing as how now there is Christian "everything" from Christian super heroes and comic books to Christian punk rock and death metal, I guess Christian Goth could work as well.
If you want to start a Christian church based on Catholicism to appeal to the Goth "scene" as a whole, I have a few suggestions.


1. This whole concept of priests having to be abstinent has to go. We all know what sick moral depravities can come from sexual repression. If I had kids, I certainly wouldn't want them around a person in that kind of leadership role if he can't get some booty every once in a while.
Same goes for nuns. Sexual gratification between consenting adults in the church should be an acceptable practice for both straights and gays alike.

2. During communion, one can have as much wine and bread as they like. Lord knows how much we like to drink, I do anyway. Just as he multiplied the loaves and fishes, and turned the water into wine, if Jesus were around today, I think he would want to share as much of his blood and his body as there is available. I recommend stocking up at Bob's package store and Panera before Sunday mass.

3. Mass would be best held on Sunday evenings, as most of us are probably too hung over from drinking at Temple on Saturday night to get up early on Sunday morning to go to church.

4. I think nuns in tight PVC habits dancing in cages would be a good Idea, and appeal to the "Fetish Christian" crowd as well.

Hope some of these ideas help bring people to your church.
I know I would be in attendance every Sunday if they were in place.

Zeo wrote:4. I think nuns in tight PVC habits dancing in cages would be a good Idea, and appeal to the "Fetish Christian" crowd as well.

Complete with crucifix dildos!

not a christian. far from it.

but if it's like zeo's take on church, I might go.

If you guys were talking about creating a gothic Unitarian church, I'd be all about it.

Just a suggestion: Don't leave out us heathens. Does this have to be a strictly christian thing? Why not open it up for all forms of worship?

Mr Clock wrote:not a christian. far from it.

but if it's like zeo's take on church, I might go.

If you guys were talking about creating a gothic Unitarian church, I'd be all about it.

Just a suggestion: Don't leave out us heathens. Does this have to be a strictly christian thing? Why not open it up for all forms of worship?

Because then there is always the possibility you could get "Gothic Islamic extremists" who could end up bringing a bomb to church any time a flame war erupts on KG.

Zeo wrote:

Mr Clock wrote:not a christian. far from it.

but if it's like zeo's take on church, I might go.

If you guys were talking about creating a gothic Unitarian church, I'd be all about it.

Just a suggestion: Don't leave out us heathens. Does this have to be a strictly christian thing? Why not open it up for all forms of worship?

Because then there is always the possibility you could get "Gothic Islamic extremists" who could end up bringing a bomb to church any time a flame war erupts on KG.

"Bump into someone, Hey! Fucking Jihad on you mate!" - Eddie Izzard

I agree with several people on this thread that your faith and your lifestyle don't necesarily have to coincide or conflict. I was raised Southern Missionary Baptist (i.e. footwashing Baptist, but no sankes or speaking tongues). What I believe now is a combination to old Celtic religion and Christianity. I was solely a pagan for many years, two of those dedicated to Macha (which I have to admit were temultuous years). I eventually came to the realization in my heart that I do believe in Christianity and that I can still honor the tradition of my ancestors without worshipping the old Gods. It was very hard for me to come to because I felt the two were confliciting, since nearly the entire Celtic race was slaughtered during the crusades. But the whole messege of Christianity is forgiveness, and who I am to judge the actions of people who lived 1800 years ago? I do my best not to knock anyone else's religion. I think the thing that turns most people away from Christianity is the combination of guilt and judgement. I have to admit Goth Christianity sounds suspiciously like a gimick, but if it makes people happy and brings them together in their faith more power to them.

I don't care about religion. I am going to live my life as best that I can. And if that’s not good enough for whatever deity may exist then he/she/it can kiss my ass.

The only fact that I can come up with, involving religion, is that whatever it is, it is beyond our ability to understand.

My experience with "organized" religion is that most people missuse it and don't understand the actual benifition points, use it as a crutch to fill a hole in their life that needs some other form of active attention, or as the reason to be a "good" person. Sorry, something is not just pious because the bible states so. It annoys the shit out of me when someone says blah blah blah is good because God says so. Not true. The bible says that something is pious because at the time, that’s what was best for society. There was some sort of logical reason for it. Not just God thought it was good. Some of these, are still good for society, some are not. I believe that someone should be a good person solely based on the fact that it is good to be a good person not because of some delusion on the origin of piety.

Why believe in a blind faith when you can use logic and reason to come to the same or better conclusions?

I find the idea that I will be condemned to hell for not believing in something that I have not been given and viable evidence to even remotely prove or suggest the possible existence of a “God(s)â€

i dont have much use for religion..but i do try to hold to my own personal code of the way i treat the people around me and well..if i use Christ as my guide for how to do that..how to love people unconditionally..then gah i guess that makes me a christian.

Beliefs are very personal..but i think in the end..its how you live and the way you treat other people that matters. Who can make a good argument against kindness, really?



I fail..a lot.