Jack wrote:B) Consist of people who like to dance and have fun whether they know the song by heart or not.

C) Aren't close-mindedly stuck in the 80s/90s to the extent that, no matter how good a "new" song is, they turn their noses up at it and shut their ears.

Hell, these two items are pretty much all any DJ could ask for from his/her patrons in a night.

Basically, it comes down to the fewer people that dance to stuff, new or old, the less and less it will be played. More people dancing equals more playtime. Want newer stuff? Request it. If it fits in with the rest of the set (and the DJ has it), it will be more likely to get played. If people dance to it, it (or stuff like it) will get played more. So, even if you don't know every note and lyric of a song by heart, but you may have heard it before and kinda like it, get out there and shake your money-maker. The more people that do this, the more likely you'll be to see the set lists change over time all by themselves without any of this type of thread stuff happening.

Some other things:

I'm not sure about Bone or Arkady, or any of the other fine DJs in K'town, but at least here in Nastyvile the DJs (myself included) get really disheartened to see the same played out (or just plain bad) songs on the request list and are less and less likely to pay attention to the rest of the stuff on it. If you are someone who requests the same songs over and over, night to night, here are some small things for you (and note: this is not meant to be rude or in any way condescending or disrespectful of music tastes. It's just and idea of how you might get a song you want to hear played):

1. Before you request a song, think about it.
a. Have you requested it multiple times before?
b. Does it NOT get played when you request it?
c. Does it NOT get played at all?

If you answered yes these, then perhaps you might consider changing that request. Most likely it will probably not get played this time either. Pick a different song that you like. Maybe the song has gotten a really bad response before and the DJs are loathe to play it again, or maybe it's just a bad song for dancing (or bad period). It's okay to have different tastes in music, everyone does, but you have to remember that the DJ has to do his best to provide for everyone as much as possible. So if you and a few of your friends like the song, that's great, but it doesn't mean it will fly on the dance floor.

2. Don't take offence if the DJ doesn't play 'your' song. A lot of the time, the DJs have their set lists planned out in advance and if the requested song won't fit in, or it just plain won't work it's not going to get played. Don't sweat it, make another request and maybe the song you requested earlier will get played later, or on another night. As always, see consideration 1 before requesting.

3. Have fun. This is all the DJs want. Get out, dance, have a great time. If you don't hear your request, it's okay, see consideration 2.

4. Don't pester the DJs. Everyone, including the DJs, is there to have a good time. That being said, the DJs are at work and it can be stressful to have people complaining about the DJ not playing their song, or continually requesting the same songs over and over. By all means, make your requests, but please respect that the DJs are working and that their main attention is going to be focused on mixing the music and keeping the dancefloor going.


All that being said, my experience of Sanctus (I DJed there once, most of you probably don't remember it) was this:

I played some newer stuff and no one danced to it, nor did I get requests during this time. That was pretty much how it went until I started in with some old stuff (late 70's early 80's). Then, all I got were requests for old stuff.

Now, like I said, I was there only one night, so take that how you will, but I think it would speak to how the music is chosen for the night, and because of that I think some consideration needs to be given.

Hmm..that's really fucking long. Does it make sense?

***Stands up and APPLAUDES!***

I have two observations which in my mind are possible factors in the decline of Sanctus as a club night and the KNoxgothic board in general.
1) The end of chat on KG. I think that this was a great way to build and create community. It gave people a reason to be online and check in. You could meet new people and talk to old friends and just catch up. I know that chat was pulled due to security issues, but I feel that its loss is worse than the flaws. I know that there have been attempts to create a new chat room, but these have not been well supported or promoted by the board. I think just having someone or a group of people around to talk to really helps new members out and helps to make them feel welcome.

2) The new camera policy. I know the row that was caused and that the policy was put in place to try and avert that situation from happening again. However, again I think that the outcome was worse than the occasional indignation. Pictures are a way to advertise the night and the people who are there. I think the pics work best when there are multiple photographers so you get more than just pics of the same people and activities. There is a fair amount of vanity for better or worse in this group and people like seeing their pics online, especially if they went through alot of trouble to look good. We want to advertise that we have people who put energy into the scene through their costumes, dancing, attitudes and presence. Its a good thing and I think we need more of it. If people think they might get their picture taken, they are more likely to dress up and look "good" in general, so play a little to human nature. Pictures also can give new people a feel for what is in store and perhaps intrigue some of them to come out and dance. Its advertising and I think we need more.

Anyway, just some thoughts I vomited out on the keyboard. I like Sanctus, I like music I can dance to. Although dancing in my case is a rather liberal use of the word. But Hell, I enjoy myself and without any pesky mirrors, I don't have to watch myself dance so I am fine with it. The rest of you... ehhh find something pretty to look at and you will be fine.

smile

) The end of chat on KG. I think that this was a great way to build and create community. It gave people a reason to be online and check in. You could meet new people and talk to old friends and just catch up. I know that chat was pulled due to security issues, but I feel that its loss is worse than the flaws. I know that there have been attempts to create a new chat room, but these have not been well supported or promoted by the board. I think just having someone or a group of people around to talk to really helps new members out and helps to make them feel welcome.


Not that I'm a super user of KG, but I agree I used to chat here , ALONG time ago. It was a safe haven, being sober or not so sober!
It was fun just shooting the shit, at 3am in the morning!

http://www.knoxgothic.com/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi

It's in the early testing phase now.

DarkVader wrote:http://www.knoxgothic.com/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi

It's in the early testing phase now.

A few ideas from your general public recapped into one post:
1) i know we got a few UT and pellisippi students on here.
STREET TEAM.
this would require the dates and the flyers to be done a little earlier than they have been, but still. flyer the shit out of the campuses. ive seen candiates that go to BOTH.

2) earlier printing of said flyers deserves its own section.

3)have you ever tried a radio spot?

4) myspace, great idea. now maybe get a myspace group or just whatever you can to send out as many bulletins and invites as possible.

5)if your changing some shit up at sanctus, tell people on the flyer. that old axiom of new and improved really works.

6)music has been addressed.... but that.

7)maybe changing the ads a little bit on appearance? maybe getting more space in the metropulse just to make a fuller advert?

8 ) getting chat back is an awesome idea. really.

just a few ideas to get the ball rolling, mostly already mentioned.. just collecting them. these are some of the main things i hear people complain about for sanctus that they wish they could change, i just compiled them.

good to see a push to revamp sanctus into a barn burning night again.
sorry i couldnt make it to the last one, but was in another part of the country.
theres people with alot of faith in the night, im one of them. if i can think of any more ideas, ill send em over.

i agree with junkie. better marketing would def. help out. although the sunday night thing does a lot of harm. i have not been able to make it out to either night lately as i have been working up to 70 hours a week and some weeks i have not had a day off at all. plus i have to be at work around 7:30 in the morning.

it has been brought up several times that sanctus should rotate through djs. on a very small scale, i think this would be a good idea. but only allow people who have djed before and can prove that they do not suck. what i like about sanctus is that i can go there and for the most part, i can dance to most of what is played, where as at temple, my experience has been that it is hit and miss when it comes to the music. some nights there has been only a handfull of songs that i would want to dance to but there it also has its nights where i could dance the whole night if it wasn't for the fact that i would pass out on the dance floor.

Wow, i haven't logged into this board in forever.

i can only say why i haven't been out.. and that is that i'm in a completely different place in my life than i was even a year ago. i don't get into clubs at all anymore. i don't attend sanctus or temple so i'm not choosing one over another. it basically comes down to the fact that a club night, for me, help fill a loneliness that i was having, and at the time, i needed all of that interaction. now, i've calmed a bit and i've found my "happy spot" in my life at the moment and i'm much happier with much smaller groups of people. i can't handle crowds anymore. i just prefer intimacy over excitement right now.

plus, the last time i went to sanctus, i got into a fight with a stripper. it was great knowing that everyone had my back on it but i just realized that i had to start working on things internally. so yeah, like Judas said, some of us just change.

it doesn't mean that i don't miss people, and those people i'll most likely see on the weeks that i come out to 11th street, but that's it.

i will, however, help with anything on myspace. i'll try to start helping with posting bulletins for both Sanctus and Temple. i don't want either to die, i know how important they are to people, i just can't do it now.

this is all well and good, but your only talkng to the people who already go to sanctus. do you realy think this is going to bring the othrs back?

anyway, my two cents...get rid of michael first. he's playing the same songs since i was going to the mercury. get rid of him and play some record lable sampler each month. you play new music and dont have to worry about him getting drunk, harassing people, or hitting stop in the middle of a song.

next, play more new music. everyone agrees on that. youve had djs and you know who, who played new music, and people came out just for that. some of us dont dance, nd not everyone wants to dance to new music but a lot of people want to hear it. if nothing else, stop playing the same things over and over and ovr.

get back to playgn just goth and industrial. stop playing things like garbage and ween and trying to please everyone wit everything. how many geners do you have on the flier now? goth nights worked before and can work again.

also, the Old City sucks for parking. find a new venue that has better parking and doesn't sound like an empty can.

just my two cents.

littlepockit wrote:also, the Old City sucks for parking. find a new venue that has better parking and doesn't sound like an empty can.
just my two cents.

Well technically we park right next to BlueCats as Sunday the parking is free. There isn't a problem with that.

The only things I can add of note.

1. Please do not get rid of any of the dj's. I've promised myself not to get into the old music vs. new music debate again becasue the argument tend to run circular. But new music is being played. Look over the setlists, count the unique songs. Anyway I'd be disapointed if one of our wave spinners left.

2. If some fresh out of high school peoples could be directed our way I thinks things would strenghten up.

3. It's not as dead as it appears...Halloween got us a pretty decent crowd. We just need to get those people the rest of the year somehow.

I just looked over the last few set lists and saw a bunch of the same songs played again and again, and even just the same bands over and over makes it old.

Not that there are a TON of bands that everyone likes that we can choose from, but I'd be happy if I never heard some of the following songs at Sanctus again, requested or not

U Suck- Consolidated
Army of Me- Bjork
Safety Dance
The Time Warp
#1 crush-garbage
any lords of acid
personal jesus- depeche mode
ok, most any Depeche Mode has been run into the ground
same with NIN, My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult
cantara, ubiquitous mr lovegrove -DCD

Good music, good bands, just run into the fucking ground.
Of course, the idiot masses won't dance to music they don't know and most of them only know the Top 40 Gothic Hits, so I'd say get over the obsession that people HAVE to dance,...I mean..

they can dance if they want to...

heh

but don't play the same tired shit just to keep them on the floor, y'know what I'm saying? Everyone gets tired of the same music, the dancers and non-dancers. I'd say that a lot of the attendees sadly aren't so much into the music as looking like The Crow (kids these days, geez).

The fashion and the music are my favorite parts of the subculture and it seems there is a lot more you could throw in, not necessarily Dance music but goth music.

Hardcoregirl wrote:Good music, good bands, just run into the fucking ground.
Of course, the idiot masses won't dance to music they don't know and most of them only know the Top 40 Gothic Hits, so I'd say get over the obsession that people HAVE to dance,...I mean..

they can dance if they want to...

heh

Unfortunately, that is the DJs job, keeping people on the dance floor. Honestly, if you walked into a club with a huge dancefloor, the Dj's playing certainly dancable music and no one was dancing, rather they were sitting around like it was a coffee shop, what would you think....honestly?

In most club situations, if the DJ can't keep the floor going he/she probably won't get paid as much, or may not be invited to return to DJ there (i.e. fired). I realize that Sanctus isn't the normal DJ/club situation, but the DJ still needs to do their job. Besides, if people are dancing to it, then why should they stop playing it?

I'll say it again, this is exactly the thing that happened when I DJed there. I played new stuff, no one danced, no one requested stuff, it's like I wasn't even there. Then I start to play old stuff, and aall the sudden I'm the request magnet.....for old "played out" stuff.

Now if new stuff is getting requested and the DJs aren't playing it, then shame on them, but if no one is requesting new stuff (which is the case that I saw), then shame on you.

Nephilim wrote:I realize that Sanctus isn't the normal DJ/club situation, but the DJ still needs to do their job. Besides, if people are dancing to it, then why should they stop playing it?

becuase only 50 people went out last month. thats a clear sign that something isnt working right. and if its npt the normal dj/club situation, what is it?

Hardcoregirl wrote:Of course, the idiot masses won't dance to music they don't know and most of them only know the Top 40 Gothic Hits, so I'd say get over the obsession that people HAVE to dance,...I mean..

they can dance if they want to...

heh

but don't play the same tired shit just to keep them on the floor, y'know what I'm saying? Everyone gets tired of the same music, the dancers and non-dancers. I'd say that a lot of the attendees sadly aren't so much into the music as looking like The Crow (kids these days, geez).

The fashion and the music are my favorite parts of the subculture and it seems there is a lot more you could throw in, not necessarily Dance music but goth music.

I agree with points and disagree with others. Sure there are songs that get played alot. That is because people flock to the floor like mad when they are played. If you know it works use it. But at the same time there are alot of people that if they don't know a song they won't even touch the floor, that is why you have to kind of trick them into it. Play a song that is a hit and after that play something that is in the same vein that they haven't heard and watch the reaction. Also it is worth noting that early in the nights I have noticed alot of new stuff getting put in. Play the heavy hitters in the middle of the night and the new stuff early so you can progressively bump it up on the time slot. If It works great, if not then oh well. I'm on the floor alot and I don't see a problem with playing the same stuff as before, just playing it twice the same night.

littlepockit wrote:

Nephilim wrote:I realize that Sanctus isn't the normal DJ/club situation, but the DJ still needs to do their job. Besides, if people are dancing to it, then why should they stop playing it?

becuase only 50 people went out last month. thats a clear sign that something isnt working right. and if its npt the normal dj/club situation, what is it?

What the attendance indicates is that we have collectively stagnated. In the past few days since this thread was started, we have begun to agressively fix the issues that have been brought up as well as many that you all don't know about. Good things are coming but only if we get the attendance at this next Sanctus that we need.

We are listening to you all. I think you will be pleasently surprised.

Nephilim wrote:Unfortunately, that is the DJs job, keeping people on the dance floor.

This is debatable. At a Top 40 "meet market" dance club, yes, that is the DJ's job. Traditionally, as far as I have seen in the past, the job of a DJ at an "alternative" sort of club night is simply to play good music.

Honestly, if you walked into a club with a huge dancefloor, the Dj's playing certainly dancable music and no one was dancing, rather they were sitting around like it was a coffee shop, what would you think....honestly?

I would think "Cool, maybe people are actually communicating and connecting with each other rather than posing on a dance floor like a bunch of fashion whores."

I have been to many - many - goth nights in large cities, usually held at clubs that are exclusively goth clubs, and the overwhelming trend was that there were maybe a dozen or two dancers max, and most people were socializing.

By all means, if you want to have a goth night that is basically Liquid or Michael's with black lipstick on, don't listen to me.

Jack wrote:I would think "Cool, maybe people are actually communicating and connecting with each other rather than posing on a dance floor like a bunch of fashion whores."

I have been to many - many - goth nights in large cities, usually held at clubs that are exclusively goth clubs, and the overwhelming trend was that there were maybe a dozen or two dancers max, and most people were socializing.

By all means, if you want to have a goth night that is basically Liquid or Michael's with black lipstick on, don't listen to me.

Besides Sunday nights and the music I'm tired of one of the main reasons I don't like to go out anymore to any club or bar is that...I don't feel like I'm enriching my friendships or my life by buying drinks that I could make at home cheaper and shouting at my friends over loud music. Oh, and the cigarrette smoke stinks and burns my eyes....and in cold weather, I can't escape to the courtyard for fresh air without freezing my ass off.

I could deal with the smoke and expensive drinks, but I guess you gotta make the rest of it worth it. Perhaps we should aim at the 18-22ish subset. Market to the emo kids at Java, they don't know how goth the really are...lol.


Eh, you can't always get what you want...

Hardcoregirl wrote:I don't feel like I'm enriching my friendships or my life by buying drinks that I could make at home cheaper

That's one of the main problems I have with bars in this town: not only are mixed drinks ridiculously expensive, but you're also expected to tip the bartender. I can understand expensive drinks at places like Sapphire or Michael's, but a town like Knoxville shouldn't charge the same for a Jack and Coke that a bar in New York would - and I'm not exagerrating, I have literally spent the same on liquor drinks in NYC that I have in Knoxville, like fucking $5.75 for coffee with Bailey's in. What the damn?

Especially when a club has a cover, there ought to be reasonable beer and drink specials. How do you think those places on the Strip bring in such big crowds? $1 Jell-o shooters and 50 cent drafts. Cheaper drinks would mean more people coming out, because at least half the times I've not attended Sanctus it was because I thought "Well, fuck, I really can't justify spending upwards of $20 or $30 to listen to a bunch of songs I either have heard a million times before or don't like, on the off chance that Michael will hook me up with 'The Passenger' or 'No New Tale To Tell', talk to a few good friends over loud music, and endure the scoffing stares of girls who think I wandered into the wrong bar when I was actually listening to goth music while they were still convinced that Korn was the coolest band on Earth."