Punk rock?

[Nephilim]

Ok,my two cents,no matter how unwanted it may be.As far as GG goes,I fuckin love the guy.

More power to ya.

He didn't give a fuck,and whether or not you AGREE with some or,fuck,MOST of what he did and said,HE HAD A BIG INFLUENCE.I mean,shit,Dee Dee Ramone is even quoted as sayin GG was very influential.Dee Dee was a member of the Murder Junkies for a while.Jerry Only has been quoted as saying he was influential,hell even Glenn Danzig.

Where can I see these quotes?

[sara!]

PUNK ROCK!

[Reverend_ Hate]

Where can I see these quotes?

I don't know man,have you tried the internet,one of the many books on the american punk scene,or one of the books on GG Allin? Besides,his influence isn't limited to "punk" music. Plenty of artists outside of punk were very inspired by GG,if you want one that's not too much trouble to find,Rob Zombie.And don't give me that bullshit about Zombie bein a sell out or whatever,sell out or not,he IS a musician and he WAS influenced by GG.He even said it on VH1.But,I withdraw from this argument on the grounds that I am drunk and may say somethin stupid. lol This is all in fun anyway.

[rec|use]

Uhh....hey McLaren try Finsbury Park in London

uhh hey Euronymous
try living in london doesn't automaticly make you british
he and his family were irish


read his book

[rec|use]

outside of stating the obvious about anarchy,abortion,violence,apathy or fascism what did they bring to the table as song writers in their 2 years?

try attacking the root of englands race and social problems at the time
taking on the queen and the rich
who were spawning
labor strikes / racial violence / and class division

in fact johnny rotten got stabbed several times for making his statement
and if that's the only message he got to make in the 2 years of writing (which in those two years he had to deal with a backstabbing manager and a junk addicted bassist)
then so be it

[rec|use]

to come full circle and get back to the point

what are YOU going to bring to the table
that's gonna change my opinion about punk rock being dead
are you gonna play four chords instead of 3

sing about george w. bush

well take a number and stand in line

while the rest of us who continue the true spirit and aesthetic of what your trying to convey
move on to something more interesting


did you even visit that slogun link

[Bone]

Note to everyone: While I realise ya gotta have attitude when your talking about Punk, please watch tempers and name calling, I DON"T want to see this turn into a fight I have to moderate!
I am rather enjoying this thread so far.

Almost every great punk band had some sort of message that they wanted to get out, and it certainly wasn't "I don't give a fuck." Here's a little list for you to think about:

The Clash, Crass, Subhumans, UK Subs, Minor Threat, The Ramones, D.I., Fear, The Angry Samoans, GBH, Black Flag, Bad Brains, Iggy and the Stooges, The Birthday Party, The Damned, Dead Kennedys, Descendants, Bad Religion, Screeching Weasel, New York Dolls, Dead Boys, The Exploited, Johnny Thunders, The Misfits, X-Ray Specs, Richard Hell (and the Voidoids), The Buzzcocks, The Circle Jerks, Husker Du, Stiff Little Fingers, Blondie, MDC, SNFU, 7 Seconds, Patty Smith.

All of these bands/people I would say had far more influence on punk than GG Allin.

Damn can't believe you threw down the Bad Brains Card!!! RAWK!
However, you Forgot "All" and "Agent Orange", also worth noting of the 80s punk scene - early Red Hot Chilli Peppers. If you want to get to the some real early roots of influence on punk- look at The Who.

Now something to stir up some shit -
Like em or Hate em - The Sex Pistols Were the Backstreet Boys of Punk! They were assembled by a manager who formulated them for success. Hey, not even Guns-n-Roses, The Rolling Stones, and The Who put togeather have half the rock and roll legend stories that the Pistols had. They were a success by throwing up the middle finger at success.
Hell Sid had to do it "His Way" and we all saw how much that sucked, and he knew it! But he did it anyway.
For all that, the Sex Pistols have to get my vote for most influental punk band EVER!

<Stepping off SoapBox bone wanders off to don flame retardant suit>

[mehem]

Oh I get it his family was of Irish descent ,and so I guess even though he was born in London in 56' and lived there his whole life that makes him Irish.WTF?Shit he should have been in the Saw Doctors or The Pogues.Sure it's a small and insignificant point,but I found it funny you giving someone else hell about a fact they had right you had wrong(truth told I'm a tad upset at myself for playing the role of message board bitch).Still my point is they were the monkees of punk rock,and yes that's an opinion that many will disagree with.And uhh,that's alright I already have many books,movies(like filth,fury) on him and other punk bands(as well as over 2,000 punk songs in my I Tunes,yes now I'm bragging),so I have more than a little knowledge about that era.I've read Iggy's and I suggest Please Kill Me the one about the CBGB scene, at that time.So why would I want to read Rotten's?You say Pistols I say The Stooges,whose right,whose wrong?Quick question,seriously what's the difference in ridiculing George Bush and the Queen,don't we have our own class division and social problems?Don't they both present the same problems?You praise one artist for doing it and ridicule another when they "get in line?"I guess Never Mind is England's version of The Crisis.
Cheers
-euronymous

[vicious_blood]

Oh I get it his family was of Irish descent ,and so I guess even though he was born in London in 56' and lived there his whole life that makes him Irish.WTF?Shit he should have been in the Saw Doctors or The Pogues.Sure it's a small and insignificant point,but I found it funny you giving someone else hell about a fact they had right you had wrong(truth told I'm a tad upset at myself for playing the role of message board bitch).Still my point is they were the monkees of punk rock,and yes that's an opinion that many will disagree with.And uhh,that's alright I already have many books,movies(like filth,fury) on him and other punk bands(as well as over 2,000 punk songs in my I Tunes,yes now I'm bragging),so I have more than a little knowledge about that era.I've read Iggy's and I suggest Please Kill Me the one about the CBGB scene, at that time.So why would I want to read Rotten's?You say Pistols I say The Stooges,whose right,whose wrong?Quick question,seriously what's the difference in ridiculing George Bush and the Queen,don't we have our own class division and social problems?Don't they both present the same problems?You praise one artist for doing it and ridicule another when they "get in line?"I guess Never Mind is England's version of The Crisis.
Cheers
-euronymous

Oh, wow. Props man.

[mehem]

And also I"m up to trade w/ anyone anytime,films too if it's fucked up I have it.I like the barter system, just shoot me a line.Oh and Agent Orange fuckin' rocks,I used to skate to them and JFA all the time as a kid,cheers

[karmakaze]

Just out of curiosity, how old is everyone here talking about punk?

One of the most astounding ads for a punk band was asking for "ages 18-25." This age group wasn't even out of kindergarten when punk started.

Yeah, I am an old fart, but at least I was there and can truthfully say that it, as least, is dying.

if you are only 18-25 you were not even born or even planned out to be conceived when punk was started. think the fugs, new york dolls, and richard hell in the late 60's early 70's. The term "punk" actually started in a self published magazine floating around new york and specifically CBGBs in the same time period. So technically to be 18 and catch the front end of the whole "punk" movement then you would have to be about 52 if calculated from 1970.

Also, on the whole "Punks not dead" idea, how the fuck do you kill a mentality?

saying "punks dead" is like saying "republicans dead." (no matter how much we wish that it was.)

you can't really technically say that punks dead. yes, the ideas and stereotypes morphed and twisted in many cases, but there are still a few around. the punk movement however, is a different story.

[karmakaze]

Uhh....hey McLaren try Finsbury Park in London

uhh hey Euronymous
try living in london doesn't automaticly make you british
he and his family were irish


read his book

McLaren came from NY. he was in the new york dolls for a while.

[mehem]

Yeah, Rotten was born in Finsbury,I just had to call someone Malcolm(and yes I think he did try to make the pistols look like the dolls,did you know Johansen's sister lives here).Excellent points above about the mentality angle.I think you'd dig Just Kill Me,if you haven't read it already,Cheers.

[karmakaze]

Yeah, Rotten was born in Finsbury,I just had to call someone Malcolm(and yes I think he did try to make the pistols look like the dolls

yeah, he did, and failed horribly. personally, I hate the pistols. well, hate isn't the right word. I hate their CD.

[Coor]

From AXSaint:

Apparently, unlike you Trevor, I know how to make fun of myself. So who cares? You know maybe 2% of me, so you have no right to judge. But you know what? I refuse to belittle you because I have more respect for peoples opinions. I don't care if you think I'm not punk, I personally don't think you're interesting, so I guess we are even.

I don't care what anyone thinks of me and it makes me laugh that you apparently think I do.

I don't believe I'm the reason you think punk is dead, but thanks for the credit, I appreciate it.
Like I said...you have the right to your own opinion, just like I do. But that doesn't make your opinion right. Thanks for trying tho.

Well, Kit, I'm glad that you know how to make fun of yourself, now you are on par with the other 6 million of us...As for you, personally, killing 'Punk'...Don't flatter yourself...Wht I meant was that it's people like you, that killed 'Punk'...You are the type of person that made bands like Green Day, Blink-182, 7 Sum-41 the corporate juggernaughts that they are...Kit...For this...I <3 you...*Kisses*...BTW, learn about the apostraphie...It's a great gift of English...

Also...I may get banned, or censured for the next statement directed to the Nashville Gothic Admin...buuuuttttt....

Nephilim, did you really just say that 7 Seconds are a more influential 'Punk' band that GG Allen...*sighs*...That's one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard...I mean....WOW! If you can give me ONE good reason to back this up...I will apologize for that, but until then...It stands...I mean if you are going to name off 'Metal' bands as influential in 'Punk', why not Mayhem?????? Read up on them...Then you will see what I mean...

-eNd-

From the Chamber to the Grave,
AXSaint

[greyeyes]

Coor, I don't know why you think you would get banned or censured for anything that's your opinion. That's just freaking weird. Since Neph is asleep I'll answer instead. 7 Seconds were seminal in the Cali-Punk movement, as well as being one of the longest lived punk bands ever. If you listened to that genre of punk, you would know what he meant. I don't think anyone who has heard thier album "Old School" from '91 would call it anything but punk. Damned good, too. Why don't you go download a few songs from it and get back to me. I have never thought of 7 Seconds as a metal band, but I am old and grumpy and stopped listening to them 10 years ago. Comparing them to Mayhem? Well... okay. I thought people just made fun of them. Oh yeah, they are a question in the Goth board game.

I had the dubious pleasure of meeting G.G. Allin many years ago. No, I didn't shake his hand. I knew where it had been.

I think he belongs more in the shock genre than anywhere else. He is famous for being obscene. That in itself isn't such a bad thing I guess, but we are talking about music. I personally don't like his music. To hold GG Allin up as a paragon of anything other than shock is distasteful to me. I think that he became larger than life in death and that a lot of people who never had the opportunity to see him live (I have in November of '91 and yes, it was short due to being shut down by the authorities) blew it all out of proportion. Now how many of you actually saw this man play? It wasn't all that impressive. I did see him drink more than any other human I've ever known, and he tipped the barstaff incredibly well. He was also curiously polite off stage. I just think it's overblown. And that is just my opinion. I hate to sound like an old fogey when it comes to things like this, but just as the argument goes on and on about goth music, people just don't think about where music came from.

The Dolls are a perfect example. In the early 70's men did not dress up like that and get on stage. It just didn't happen. The Dolls proved to a whole generation of people making music that you could literally do whatever you wanted to do and express yourself however you felt. That was a message. And they contributed Johnny Thunders to the world. Pardon me for being so bold, but that man was a punk if there ever was one.

*off soapbox now*

*edited to add* and don't get me started on Captain Beefheart. Bone, you may the only person here to understand that.

[junkie christ]

i think any real punk wouldnt let this argument last this long. they just woulda hit someone. which is what i woulda done if this convo woulda happened in front of me.
im not even bothering reading the threads and posts.
i think you all discredit yourselves with your eagerness to be the authority on the matter, the opposite of what real punk is about,
this fucking me makes me sick, congrats. youve all proven to me how pathetic your lives must be.

[Coor]

AXSaint....Not Coor!!!! Writes:

i think any real punk wouldnt let this argument last this long. they just woulda hit someone. which is what i woulda done if this convo woulda happened in front of me.
im not even bothering reading the threads and posts.
i think you all discredit yourselves with your eagerness to be the authority on the matter, the opposite of what real punk is about,
this fucking me makes me sick, congrats. youve all proven to me how pathetic your lives must be.

*salutes*

First of all...*not 'Punk'*...But...I have one more thing to add, then I'm out of this....

To say that GG Allen is more Shock Rock than Punk Rock...OK...I can agree with that...But then Greyeyes...To contradict youself, by saying that The New York Dolls WHERE Punk because they wore dresses on stage...WTF? I mean, first off, I love the Dolls...Second, Damn right they're punk...But, to say that is absurd...Maybe you should really evaluate the words that you piss from your mouth before you speak...I'm not trying to piss on anyone's parade here...but that was a little weak...

BTW, I do now apologize for the 7 Seconds comment...You convinced me...

-eNd-

This message brought to you by, AXSaint

[karmakaze]

actually, officially, i think the green jelly/jello is the longest lived punk band ever.

they have been through more than 74 band members and have been around for several decades.



and on another note, the whole punk thing to me isn't about the whole "you stupid, me smash" mindset. however, it is about intellectual and creative superiority. "in your face" does not necessarily mean your fist. on the other hand, it does not necessarily mean that you are above that either.

as mentioned earlier, the New York Dolls named the punk movement. have you ever really listened to their lyrics? they are not about violence. they are about the most sarcastic things i have ever heard. they are extremely intellectual and treat society with satire.

[greyeyes]

What is wrong with discussing anything that so obviously has people interested? Next time any of you are in Nashville I can arrange for you to meet a few old punks that would happily discuss this at length, then punch you in the face for fun if you'd like. But seriously, I was referring to the Dolls as a huge "influence" on punk. They did and said things people had not considered before. I know it's hard for anyone not growing up in the 70's to appreciate, but that just wasn't done. It was everything, the look and what they said. I thought that was what we were talking about. So I don't know how I might have contridicted myself. I do think quite a bit before opening my mouth. Unlike some people, I can't help it.

Again, I'm upset by the insistence that punks (or the majoirty of them) are more interested in violence than anything else. I do know some who fit that bill, a couple of close friends, in fact. But I know more who are very well read, thoughtful and politically active people. I'm not claiming to be hardcore myself. Although I still listen to a lot of the older music, I've changed. Hell, the world has changed. I love music and this is some of the music I feel most intensely about. So sue me.