Wiccans Can Die for Their Country Now

vertigo25 · Post by **vertigo25** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:27 am

Until now, the Veterans Affairs department had approved 38 symbols to indicate the faith of deceased service members on memorials. It normally takes a few months for a petition by a faith group to win the departmentâ€™s approval, but the effort on behalf of the Wiccan symbol took about 10 years and a lawsuit, said Richard B. Katskee, assistant legal director for Americans United.

NYT Article

While reading about this, I also found a couple of other related and interesting links.

Here is all but two of the symbols soldiers may have put on tombs and markers: http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp. The missing two are the Christian Scientist's cross and crown and the Muslim 5 pointed star. The site says that they are not shown because of copyright issues. Which is weird, because I thought only Scientologists did things like trademark their symbols and copyright their religious texts.

The other thing is http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_pres.htm see how (then Governor) Bush and Al Gore responded when directly asked about Wicca during the run up to the 2000 election.

Bigun · Post by **Bigun** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:46 am

At least George W. had enough balls to give a direct answer. Mr. Gore bullshitted his way through it.

Hardcoregirl · Post by **Hardcoregirl** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:26 am

Bigun wrote:At least George W. had enough balls to give a direct answer. Mr. Gore bullshitted his way through it.

Oh please.

The conservative christian side generally thinks the democrats are demons incarnate.

Just one mention that he was fine with Wicca would immediately make him into a satan "warshipper" and every fundamentalist christian would be rallying against him. I can just imagine what Pat Roberts and Jerry Falwell would say.

I mean can't you at least put yourself into his shoes and think of what you'd say if you were of his beliefs and trying to run for president? You have to be very careful what you say, and I think he did a good job expressing the importance of religious freedom (which includes freedom FROM religion).

vertigo25 · Post by **vertigo25** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:57 am

Amen

Bigun · Post by **Bigun** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:29 am

Hardcoregirl wrote:Just one mention that he was fine with Wicca would immediately make him into a satan "warshipper" and every fundamentalist christian would be rallying against him. I can just imagine what Pat Roberts and Jerry Falwell would say.

If you can't deal with the friction involved with backing a liberal idea, then why in the hell would you present yourself as being democratic candidate? I would think liberals would want someone with more balls than that. For Christ's sake, people in everyday life state that they are gay and deal with the flack that society, friends, and family dish out to them everyday. Why in the hell should a democratic leader, who supports those lifestyle and values, be any different if not even worse. You can keep pointing the finger at Conservatives and say that they are the problem, I say the problem is that current liberal leaders need to "piss or get off the pot".

Hardcoregirl · Post by **Hardcoregirl** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:56 am

Bigun wrote:
If you can't deal with the friction involved with backing a liberal idea, then why in the hell would you present yourself as being democratic candidate?

So freedom of religion is a liberal idea?

Or just Wicca?

Personally I think wicca is just as silly as christianity.

Also, just because someone is a democrat doesn't necessarily make them a "super liberal". Newsflash: A LOT of both Democrats and Republicans likely label themselves Christian. The majority of christians I know aren't quite so cozy with "witchcraft" or really any religion that differs from their own. I also know plenty of Democrats that are against gay marriage.

He did back religious freedom which is the important and I suppose "liberal" issue. No politician represents themselves 100 percent anyways...hell he may be anti-wicca himself but he doesn't want to piss off the christians or the wiccans...I think he did the best thing possible in the situation.

I mean I know the founders of this country were christian, but I don't see how christians, wiccans, atheists, democrats and republicans can't agree that religious freedom and separation of church and state were key in the founding of the country.

Bigun · Post by **Bigun** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:28 pm

All I am getting at is that people go after the democratic vote like it's the cure for AIDS. But looking at quotes like that, it only seems like your attempting to put someone in office too chicken to say he supports what you need him to support. Then again, I hear people say, "If your voting for someone who isn't in the Republican or Democratic party, then your wasting your vote". I'd rather waste my vote on someone who supports what I want supported rather than waste it on someone who is too chicken to say they don't support it.

iblis · Post by **iblis** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:39 pm

Bigun wrote:All I am getting at is that people go after the democratic vote like it's the cure for AIDS.

it's more like the cure for bush.

whomever is running, at least they aren't jeb.

Bigun · Post by **Bigun** » Tue May 01, 2007 12:58 pm

iblis wrote:
Bigun wrote:All I am getting at is that people go after the democratic vote like it's the cure for AIDS.
it's more like the cure for bush.

whomever is running, at least they aren't jeb.

I'm not quite sure how familiar you are with our Executive branch of government, but no president can run for a 3rd term... Democrat or not, time is the cure for Bush.

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:10 pm

Bigun wrote: I'm not quite sure how familiar you are with our Executive branch of government, but no president can run for a 3rd term... Democrat or not, time is the cure for Bush.

Jeb is George's brother....you know, the governor of Florida? He most certainly CAN run. Just be glad he isn't.

Bigun · Post by **Bigun** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:34 pm

Nephilim wrote:Jeb is George's brother....you know, the governor of Florida? He most certainly CAN run. Just be glad he isn't.

. . . and the price of cowspit went up 3 cents per share in China...

just as relevant.

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:35 pm

Uhh....you said Jeb couldn't run. He can.

Hardcoregirl · Post by **Hardcoregirl** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:28 pm

Bigun wrote:
Nephilim wrote:Jeb is George's brother....you know, the governor of Florida? He most certainly CAN run. Just be glad he isn't.
. . . and the price of cowspit went up 3 cents per share in China...

just as relevant.

Cowspit in China: +3 cents

Acting like you know what you are talking about and being called out on your bullshit: priceless.

Bigun · Post by **Bigun** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:23 am

Nephilim wrote:Just be glad he isn't.

---^

That's what makes it pointless... he isn't... so why mention it?

iblis · Post by **iblis** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:04 am

Bigun wrote:That's what makes it pointless... he isn't... so why mention it?

i mentioned it because the last two failures, er, i mean republicans in office were bush junior and senior.

prior to that, the last republican we had was reagan - oh yeah, that's a lot better. hey, the mic's on.

corruption i can handle - power corrupts. but i'd rather the corruption stay at the blow-job-on-the-sly-oops-is-that-my-cigar level, and not 8/10th's of a decade worth of moronic, "I AM THE LAW" "leadership" that quite a few people have come to know and hate so very well.

so yes, i believe that we have less of a chance of having a fundamentalist, right-wing sociopath as a president if we elect a democrat.

i also believe that had we not had a fundie in charge at the time, stem-cell research wouldn't have received such a harsh blow. that alone decides it for me. reality > religion

Bigun · Post by **Bigun** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:26 pm

iblis wrote:i also believe that had we not had a fundie in charge at the time, stem-cell research wouldn't have received such a harsh blow. that alone decides it for me. reality > religion

This I don't get... two things:

1) Stem Cell research doesn't require actual fetuses, the afterbirth can suffice

2) If the deed is already done.... what does it matter what happens to the body, if I ever had the chance to have a child, and it died in a miscarriage, I would *want* he/she to be used in stem cell research, at the very least he/she served some purpose in this life, I see it no different than being an organ donor in another sense. Yes it would nearly kill me to know that my child died, but it would be some condolence that he/she may have saved another life. But we are getting off subject.

This kind of thinking is *EXACTLY* what I am getting at. With that kind of mentality, -every- single conservative that will run for presidency will be a power-hungry bigot, and every liberal will be a limp-wristed wuss. In a sense that is completely ignorant and somewhat accurate. What I mean is, it's somewhat ignorant to look at both sides with stereo-typed eyes.... then again, I've been under the distinct impression for *YEARS* that the Republican/Democratic choices have been the decision between the lesser of two evils... it is, by far, getting too fucking old. Truth be told I don't want a Republican or a Democrat in office, I'd rather see a Libertarian for once.