scarecrow wrote:OH this is SOOOO easy to explain....its me. Be like me and everyone gets laid. Plain and simple I AM GOTH. oh ...wait. I thought this was the what is god? forum. Fukk. sorry.
when i looked up goth on google, at least 50 sites worshipping our own local scarecrow. my site is one the second page. that man is so goth your sperm will turn black if you drink his sweat..... j/k.
Frequently misunderstood in its aesthetics and misapplied as a term, goth rock is an offshoot of post-punk that existed primarily during the early to mid-'80s. Its reputation as the darkest and gloomiest form of underground rock is largely deserved, though today that reputation stems more from the visual theatricality of its bands and black-clad followers. Sonically, goth rock took the cold synthesizers and processed guitars of post-punk and used them to construct foreboding, sorrowful, often epic soundscapes. Early on, its lyrics were usually introspective and intensely personal, but its poetic sensibilities soon led to a taste for literary romanticism, morbidity, religious symbolism, and/or supernatural mysticism. Goth rock was generally not a critically acclaimed style, given its penchant for florid poetry, relentlessly mournful dirges, and melodramatic excess. However, it spawned a devoted, still-thriving subculture that kept its aesthetics alive long after the music's initial heyday had passed. The godfathers of goth-rock were British post-punkers Joy Division, whose bleak, remote, obsessively introspective music and lyrics laid the initial foundation for goth. But for all intents and purposes, the true birth of goth rock was "Bela Lugosi's Dead," the 1979 debut single by Bauhaus. Already chilly post-punk outfits like the Cure and Siouxsie & the Banshees became full-on goth bands around the same time, and their heavy, menacing makeup and dark clothes became an important part of their fans' expression. As goth rock's popularity spread among a certain segment of sensitive, alienated youth (first in the U.K., where most of its bands came from, then in the U.S.), its fashion sense grew more and more outlandish, and the original sound evolved somewhat. The Cure, Siouxsie & the Banshees, and the Mission UK incorporated more pop and alternative elements in their music, while the Sisters of Mercy, Fields of the Nephilim, and the American band Christian Death took a heavier, sometimes metal-influenced approach. By the end of the '80s, the original goth-rock movement had ceased to exist, but the music mutated into new forms and continued to influence many of rock's darker subgenres. During the '90s, the goth sound began to cross-pollinate with industrial music, producing hybrids that appealed to both sides, as well as the darkwave subgenre (which also incorporated '80s synth-pop and dream-pop). The latter half of the '90s also saw goth rock's influence cropping up all over heavy metal; a new breed of progressive black metal bands drew heavily from goth's sound and style, while some alternative metal bands also borrowed from goth rock's visual imagery (including Marilyn Manson, who — despite countless news reports to the contrary — is not a goth-rock artist).
I've always wondered what it would be like to sacrifice a friend. Now that I know, I need to find another one.
Darkdahla, you left out one crucial piece of information: that the early "goth" bands - in particular Bauhaus, Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy and the Cure - denied the "Goth" label and often, in interviews, claimed to despise their "goth" fans.
Andrew Eldritch has always been particularly hard on his darker fans, culminating fairly recently in the Sisters show around '98 where they covered Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb", resulting in boos (no pun intended) from the crowd.
Oh, and don't forget the Sisters of Mercy tour with Ice-T in '91 or '92, which was an ill-fated attempt to capitalize on the diversity of Lollapalooza.
I applaud and bow to to darkdalla's explanaiton. Well spoken. Or written.
So who considers themselves goth?
Maybe we could classify different goth sub genere's....(?)
I know i'm just a big ol' geek with slight goth overtones. (hates the sun, obsessed with death-particularly my own, sleeps all day comes out at night) But I'm not dyed in the wool like others.
Geek goth-digging on anime and video games etc
I know there are Gravers-gothic ravers.
What about Pirate Goth-with vests and frock collars-running around like "arr matie! gimmie all your booty!"
(they would claim ren-goth, but still look more like pirates)
Or the Religious/Cathiloc Priest/Child Sodomizer Goth (not that a goth would do that but a priest would...which makes me wonder why anyone would dress like a priest)
Androgenus Glam Goth?
Antisocial Trenchcoat Goth?
Mall Punk Goth?
Aging Hipster Goth?
Goth Fakers?
scarecrow wrote:OH this is SOOOO easy to explain....its me. Be like me and everyone gets laid. Plain and simple I AM GOTH. oh ...wait. I thought this was the what is god? forum. Fukk. sorry.
when i looked up goth on google, at least 50 sites worshipping our own local scarecrow. my site is one the second page. that man is so goth your sperm will turn black if you drink his sweat..... j/k.
I love this man HAHAHAHAHA
“That proves you are unusual, returned the Scarecrow; and I am convinced the only people worthy of consideration in this world are the unusual ones. For the common folks are like the leaves of a tree, and live and die unnoticed.â€
Jack wrote:Darkdahla, you left out one crucial piece of information: that the early "goth" bands - in particular Bauhaus, Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy and the Cure - denied the "Goth" label and often, in interviews, claimed to despise their "goth" fans.
Andrew Eldritch has always been particularly hard on his darker fans, culminating fairly recently in the Sisters show around '98 where they covered Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb", resulting in boos (no pun intended) from the crowd.
Oh, and don't forget the Sisters of Mercy tour with Ice-T in '91 or '92, which was an ill-fated attempt to capitalize on the diversity of Lollapalooza.
I left it out because I generally feel most people know that. Oh, and siouxsie hates goths as well.
I've always found it funny that some of the biggest Goth icons despise goth's more than anyone slse.
Many Goth's don't realize that many goth bands were considered post-punk until the"goth " term became commonplace. Many post-punk group's have eclectic influences.An example, Siouxsie's influences include the Beatles, Velvet Underground, The Sex Pistols(although that may have something to do with Sid Vicious being in Siouxsie then joining the Sex Pistols), and John Cale.
Pretty much I'm saying you CAN classify music as goth with out much trouble but a person is almost impossible. Basically, the only way you can base who is goth and who is not is by the music they listen to.
Last edited by darkdahla on Sun Jun 29, 2003 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've always wondered what it would be like to sacrifice a friend. Now that I know, I need to find another one.
Balance wrote:I applaud and bow to to darkdalla's explanaiton. Well spoken. Or written.
So who considers themselves goth?
Maybe we could classify different goth sub genere's....(?) I know i'm just a big ol' geek with slight goth overtones. (hates the sun, obsessed with death-particularly my own, sleeps all day comes out at night) But I'm not dyed in the wool like others.
Geek goth-digging on anime and video games etc I know there are Gravers-gothic ravers. What about Pirate Goth-with vests and frock collars-running around like "arr matie! gimmie all your booty!" (they would claim ren-goth, but still look more like pirates) Or the Religious/Cathiloc Priest/Child Sodomizer Goth (not that a goth would do that but a priest would...which makes me wonder why anyone would dress like a priest) Androgenus Glam Goth? Antisocial Trenchcoat Goth? Mall Punk Goth? Aging Hipster Goth? Goth Fakers?
Any thoughts>?
Personally, i love diversity.
To answer your question Tommy of who considers themselves goth...I don't really consider myself to be "goth"...Though I do listen to some of the staple bands...(note a big chance to throw in yer staple to the forehead joke here)...
If there is anything to label myself...I would go for post-punk or post-modern...A lil bit of glam and a dash of rivethead-ism. ANd I definatly understand the geeky D&D playing, Anime obsessed "goff" guy idelogoy.
Though the idea of having to "label" oneself strange and uncomfortable.
I'm Josh..PLain and simple...Strange and ecclectic in a dark artsy 80's vein. I still wanna dance to the songs that speak to my soul.
Be they The Cure, Project Pitchfork, Tricky, London Suede or EMF.
i wanna applaude you and DarkDahla on some of the previous views stated. I agree that the scene needs to be freshed up a bit, much like a ho needs a Renuzit air freshner duct-taped to her thigh.
But, on the other hand...I appreciate what Jason and Mike try to do for us. I go to enjoy seeing my friends and sweat a bit to a few tunes. I have been sludging around the "scene" fer about 8 to 9 years now, and I plan on to continue supporting it until I leave. And if the drama is still floating around in another year; I won't be here to deal with it anymore. We have something now..We should at least try to enjoy it before it's gone again.
"I hide the dirty minutes under my dirty mattress and they're making me itch...My time is spilt milk." JIzzlobber~ FNM
Anyone who hasn't perused Pete Scathe's History of Goth site should definitely check it out. Primarily focusses on the origins of the British goth scene, instead of the early LA and NYC versions of it, with sections on bands, fashion, influences (among other things), and how "goth" differs from related movements like punk, New Romantic, and futurism.
Actually, we both were using the same music history site. If you notice, the link you have is to a page that is all Spanish except for that paragraph. Which means they copied it and pasted it as I did.
I've always wondered what it would be like to sacrifice a friend. Now that I know, I need to find another one.
