My opinions on the current brouhaha over our Black Ball

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:32 pm

I think it's silly to have a public dance night connected to a private message board. Should have established the new night before the new board, or simply let them be unconnected events. It seems a bit too much like "poking at people" to publicize the event as "Orlok's". For that matter, hiding behind a name like "Orlok" is also pretty silly. Then again, lots of shit is silly, including things that I do, so I don't see what the big deal is.

I think it'd be really silly to not go for any of the above reasons, though. I mean, if you like the music that will be played, then go. End of story.

Cathy and I willl probably skip the first one. I want to see a set list first. I honestly wouldn't feel like going unless the musical selection is a lot wider than at Sanctus, and I haven't seen any indication that it will be.

(I mean a lot wider. Stuff that isn't specifically "goth-industrial canon". Yes, I know it's a "goth-industrial" night. That doesn't mean people have to be slaves to labels. I've already yammered on long enough about how a band can fit the mood of "goth-industrial" even if they or their label don't actually call them a "goth" or "industrial" band.)

ReddErin · Post by **ReddErin** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:07 pm

Jack wrote:I think it's silly to have a public dance night connected to a private message board. Should have established the new night before the new board, or simply let them be unconnected events. It seems a bit too much like "poking at people" to publicize the event as "Orlok's". For that matter, hiding behind a name like "Orlok" is also pretty silly. Then again, lots of shit is silly, including things that I do, so I don't see what the big deal is.

I think it'd be really silly to not go for any of the above reasons, though. I mean, if you like the music that will be played, then go. End of story.

Cathy and I willl probably skip the first one. I want to see a set list first. I honestly wouldn't feel like going unless the musical selection is a lot wider than at Sanctus, and I haven't seen any indication that it will be.

(I mean a lot wider. Stuff that isn't specifically "goth-industrial canon". Yes, I know it's a "goth-industrial" night. That doesn't mean people have to be slaves to labels. I've already yammered on long enough about how a band can fit the mood of "goth-industrial" even if they or their label don't actually call them a "goth" or "industrial" band.)

Jack, you dumbass, you just can't resist digging that hole deeper, can you? I thought we talked about this and you said you wanted in. What the hell is the matter now, man? Come on....if you're going to pick sides (ridiculous), then pick one and stick to it. Sheesh. Why don't you email me so that we can get this straightened out?

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:37 pm

ReddErin wrote:I thought we talked about this and you said you wanted in. What the hell is the matter now, man?

If the people on the board who claim to like me want me on the board, then yes, I want on the board. And nothing is the matter at all. I tried very hard to not sound divisive. All I said was point out some things I think are silly. "Silly" is very far from "bad", "evil", "malicious", or whatever. It's silly that I keep making posts like this, but like you, I have an insatiable desire to have my opinion heard (and also understood).

Come on....if you're going to pick sides (ridiculous), then pick one and stick to it. Sheesh. Why don't you email me so that we can get this straightened out?

OK, I'll email you now. But I'm not picking sides. I don't believe in sides. I mean, I'm not going to the next Sanctus, either, and I didn't go to the last one.

Really, I'm not trying to start more trouble. All I really wanted to get across is that Orlok should have been discreet and kept his and the private forum which may not be named's names off the event until everyone had settled down.

One of the members of the private forum which may not be named that I truly would claim as a friend recently said, in an email to me, "Most people I feel are threatend by your sense of well being... and most people here when are forced to see something they don't understand then they shrink away from it."

If you can't criticize people you respect, who can you criticize?

And anyway, I didn't mean anything to sound overly critical. Just the usual useless internet yadda yadda that we all do.

I'm hoping that one day, I will have apologized enough for saying stupid shit that people will understand that sometimes you can give people the benefit of the doubt and not require an elaborate explanation/apology for every instance of saying stupid shit. I mean, we all say a lot of stupid shit all the time, and I'm a bit tired of being singled out for my particular stupid shit.

It's not like I don't know I'm saying stupid shit. Conversation of any sort is a fumbling complicated attempt at sharing extremely abstract feelings that, often, we don't even understand, so how can we be expected to be perfect in communication of them?

ReddErin · Post by **ReddErin** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:18 pm

Jack wrote:
ReddErin wrote:I thought we talked about this and you said you wanted in. What the hell is the matter now, man?

If the people on the board who claim to like me want me on the board, then yes, I want on the board. And nothing is the matter at all. I tried very hard to not sound divisive. All I said was point out some things I think are silly. "Silly" is very far from "bad", "evil", "malicious", or whatever. It's silly that I keep making posts like this, but like you, I have an insatiable desire to have my opinion heard (and also understood).

Come on....if you're going to pick sides (ridiculous), then pick one and stick to it. Sheesh. Why don't you email me so that we can get this straightened out?

OK, I'll email you now. But I'm not picking sides. I don't believe in sides. I mean, I'm not going to the next Sanctus, either, and I didn't go to the last one.

Really, I'm not trying to start more trouble. All I really wanted to get across is that Orlok should have been discreet and kept his and the private forum which may not be named's names off the event until everyone had settled down.

One of the members of the private forum which may not be named that I truly would claim as a friend recently said, in an email to me, "Most people I feel are threatend by your sense of well being... and most people here when are forced to see something they don't understand then they shrink away from it."

If you can't criticize people you respect, who can you criticize?

And anyway, I didn't mean anything to sound overly critical. Just the usual useless internet yadda yadda that we all do.

I'm hoping that one day, I will have apologized enough for saying stupid shit that people will understand that sometimes you can give people the benefit of the doubt and not require an elaborate explanation/apology for every instance of saying stupid shit. I mean, we all say a lot of stupid shit all the time, and I'm a bit tired of being singled out for my particular stupid shit.

It's not like I don't know I'm saying stupid shit. Conversation of any sort is a fumbling complicated attempt at sharing extremely abstract feelings that, often, we don't even understand, so how can we be expected to be perfect in communication of them?

Okay. As I said, the drama over the forum is forum drama. This is separate (kind of like KG used to be KG and Sanctus was Sanctus, remember, boys?). This is....all...very tiring....

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:25 pm

ReddErin wrote:This is....all...very tiring....

I agree 100%. What you're feeling is how I feel all the time when I have to type a whole bunch of words trying to get my point across.

I think I should stick to monosyllabic sentences.

DANCE GOOD.

DRINK GOOD.

DRAMA BAD.

LIFE GOOD.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:21 pm

celticsmith wrote:
Shadow wrote:So that is how you spell Brouhaha. Huh.

....And YOU hav just scored 1400 bonus cool points!

OOooooooooooo, what do I get to spend them on? :twisted:

ophelia · Post by **ophelia** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:27 pm

OK, Here's my understanding:

So, even if we haven't been invited to your "private" party (club, clique, forum, etc.), you want us to know that we are all still invited to come out and support your public party (with our cash, of course).

Seems odd. And altogether hilarious.

Malakelle · Post by **Malakelle** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:44 pm

I am sooooo lost, whats the black ball? whats the new forum? Huh? Did I miss the semi as it smashed into me? I am just a poor lost malkavin

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:53 pm

And everyone was KU FU fighting........HAH!............those goths were fast as lightening.................WHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ya know, some of you need like a hobby or something. Support the night or don't. It isn't a this board or that board function. It is simply a night to get together, get your dark and spooky on, dance, drink and be fuckin merry.

Jesus, Mary AND Joseph.
Talk about Mountains and Molehills.
:roll:

Maybe a nice pottery class?

candicide · Post by **candicide** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:24 pm

It seems that this has been made more political than it needs to be.

Do you like to dance? Do you like to dress up, drink, socialize? DO you like doing it in an atomosphere that is pretty nice, where music that is a part of the subculture you identify yourself with is played? Hey...guess what? There's a place to do it next Saturday, and it has the potential to be a WEEKLY (something we've all wanted), SATURDAY (something we've all practically begged for) EVENT (frankly, something Knoxville needs more of).

It seems to me that people would be grateful that there are members of this community out there trying to better things for the scene. If you take it personally that it's involving people that are on a different messageboard that you're not a part of (because internet life is SO much more important than real life)...well, no one is forcing anyone to go. Miss out. Afterall...Knoxville has so many other great options on Saturday nights.

We'll tell you how great it was afterwards.

ReddErin · Post by **ReddErin** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:24 pm

ophelia wrote:OK, Here's my understanding:

So, even if we haven't been invited to your "private" party (club, clique, forum, etc.), you want us to know that we are all still invited to come out and support your public party (with our cash, of course).

Seems odd. And altogether hilarious.

Ya, we want your money. Come give us your big five dollars.

As I said, the forum is invite only...not my invite, but member invite. This will not change.

Also, as I said, the night is open to all. You must pay $5 to come. You must also be 18. We provide DJs for dancing and the venue provides alcohol for drinking and food for eating and potties for the numbers. So, as Jack suggested, we'll put it in monosyllabic speak -- no, no, it would be funnier to do it "Disney Indian" style:

HOW! What makes the Black Ball Black?

You pay 5 wampum.

Make big chief 0rlok heap big glad.

Big chief hire DJs for you. DJs play. Make heap good noise.

All tribes do dance. Makum rain come.

Chief of Tribe ThInQ Tank sell firewater. Make dancers dance into heap.

Many moons, all tribes tell story of Black Ball. Many squaw make squall before. Now, all well in Happy Valley.

iblis · Post by **iblis** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:25 pm

I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about the board drama that was / is going on. Going out is fun. If Hitler were to suddenly rise from the dead, and start a new night, I'd probably wind up going to that, too.

Because, ya know, that'd be really Goff.

Mother Mo · Post by **Mother Mo** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:34 pm

I can understand both sides of this arguement, though I think neither really understands the other. Not matter what the intentions originally were (& I'm sure no malice was ever intended), the result is still undeniably negative for some individuals.

Time will work it all out. Either the night will be supported & thrive, or it won't & it will die. It would have been great if it all could have been done without drama, but that may have been an unrealistic expectation. It's not that anyone wants to see a goth weekly night fail, but it's point of origin has unmistakable ramifications for some of us.

The child that is the private forum which may not be named was born from a storm in hopes of avoiding further storms. I hope that goal can be achieved for them. But for the time being, the winds are still blowing manacingly. From what I've read, there seems to be a healthy response from the general public, so good for the night! There are also those of us who don't quite feel comfortable with the set up. I too, have wondered why my company would be shunned in the one instance, but welcomed in the other. It's a general policy of mine to not go where I think I may not be welcomed or my dear friends may not be either.

I mean no harm to anyone by this post! It's a shame to have such a stink regarding something that should be heralded as great news, but, as I tell my reps, it's not what you're selling nearly as much as how you pitch it.

Let time pass, & we'll see how it all winds up. In the mean time, wouldn't it be great if we tried to be civil & let the strom just die out?

I love you all...

junkie christ · Post by **junkie christ** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:42 pm

ReddErin wrote: no, no, it would be funnier to do it "Disney Indian" style:

HOW! What makes the Black Ball Black?
You pay 5 wampum.
Make big chief 0rlok heap big glad.
Big chief hire DJs for you. DJs play. Make heap good noise.
All tribes do dance. Makum rain come.
Chief of Tribe ThInQ Tank sell firewater. Make dancers dance into heap.
Many moons, all tribes tell story of Black Ball. Many squaw make squall before. Now, all well in Happy Valley.

hey theres a new board! great. dont care. theres a gillion boards out there, why people are angry yours exists makes as much sense as eating lint.

hey theres a new night out! FUCKING ROCK. IM SO THERE. CHEERS TO THOSE WHO MADE IT HAPPEN.

hey heres Erin's posts setting people straight! man you could write a web column just slapping sense into people and id read it daily. not a blog, like an actual editoral column. that big chief rant made me laugh so hard i almost got kicked outta the computer lab.

why are people still walking around with sand in their vaginas they are trying to turn to glass over this shit is beyond me.... when everyone finally shuts up this new gig should be alot of fun.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
my two cents again...

junkie christ · Post by **junkie christ** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:14 pm

will both of you just shut the fuck up about the damn music thing...
your making people puke up dinner. finish this in ims or something or start a recluse vs. caustic thread or something.

ophelia · Post by **ophelia** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:31 pm

ReddErin wrote:
ophelia wrote:OK, Here's my understanding:

So, even if we haven't been invited to your "private" party (club, clique, forum, etc.), you want us to know that we are all still invited to come out and support your public party (with our cash, of course).

Seems odd. And altogether hilarious.

Ya, we want your money. Come give us your big five dollars.

As I said, the forum is invite only...not my invite, but member invite. This will not change.

Also, as I said, the night is open to all. You must pay $5 to come. You must also be 18. We provide DJs for dancing and the venue provides alcohol for drinking and food for eating and potties for the numbers. So, as Jack suggested, we'll put it in monosyllabic speak -- no, no, it would be funnier to do it "Disney Indian" style:

HOW! What makes the Black Ball Black?

You pay 5 wampum.

Make big chief 0rlok heap big glad.

Big chief hire DJs for you. DJs play. Make heap good noise.

All tribes do dance. Makum rain come.

Chief of Tribe ThInQ Tank sell firewater. Make dancers dance into heap.

Many moons, all tribes tell story of Black Ball. Many squaw make squall before. Now, all well in Happy Valley.

Thanks!

You sure did clear things up.

pryjmaty · Post by **pryjmaty** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:58 pm

This whole thing makes me laugh.
:morticia:

junkie christ · Post by **junkie christ** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:04 pm

LadyIvanna wrote:This whole thing makes me laugh.

me two.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:12 pm

rec|use wrote:ever hear of
einsturzende neubauten
throbbing gristle
spk
monte cazazza
whitehouse

Now hold on, with the possible exception of Monte Cazazza, all the rest of those are some of the most debatably "good" industrial bands ever. I like some Throbbing Gristle, but I would hardly hold it up as a shining example of the entire genre.

Now, Cabaret Voltaire's early stuff, that's more like something most people would agree on, I think.

pryjmaty · Post by **pryjmaty** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:14 pm

Heh...never heard of ANY of them....guess I'm just not "goff".