Mistress Eve(L) wrote:Mistress Eve(L) wrote:
No it does not indicate that the jews killed Christ, it makes more of a point that it is our own sin that killed him
Well, your sin maybe. Thanks for not including me in your superstitious claims next time.
K wel l when I said "our" I mean the rest of humanity who is not Christ.......and sin ....if you subscribe to that. But that should have been a given.
Ah wait my silly christian ways were getting the better of me......oh shit you discovered me......I was trying to convert you too....didnt you know thats what us silly christians do you know????? Come on man.....back off.......
but ok if it makes you feel better OK everyone but nexxus killed christ.....
does the flick deal with resurrection and ascension...or peter cutting off ears and jesus reattaching them? Or confronting thomas?
Why dont you just go see it so you can join in this educated discussion.....of .............2 people.
I really quite think I am done with this thread.....its quite silly.....Im done defending myself and certainly done speaking on something everyone wants to bitch about and jump in on and throw rude comments and accusations at , but hardly any of you have ass enough to go see and truely make an educated comment...Bravi to those who will ...Buttercup was right someone is going to get hurt or insulted as I am sure many of you have as well as I have. And I am NOT superstitious!.... THAT is insulting.....I have not condemned anyone on this board for their beleifs as most of them are different from mine. PLease do not belittle mine. Im very sorry, I never should have jumped on this thread. I hope that I didnt offend anyone!
I rather like this thread, actually -- it's the most intellectual we've had on the board in awhile, even if there have been some digressions.
I'm an Episcopalian myself, and a certain amount of hostility is unfortunately going to be par for the course, especially around here -- we're a diverse group, and most of the folks have rejected organized religion or moved toward a pantheistic spiritual outlook(I'm NOT attacking anyone for that --I've got far more Pagan friends than Christian ones, and I don't spend my time trying to convert people). Many of them have quite valid, intensely personal reasons for disliking Christianity, which I think is largely the result of too many right wing "Christian Taliban" types running around. I've got serious questions myself about a lot of traditional Christian teachings and "history" and was glad to see so many people discussing holes in the theology. Those we smart comments.
I haven't seen this movie yet but plan to, although I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about it. I don't make up my mind on such things until I've seen them for myself, but I've been concerned over some analyses put forth by theologians who had serious, deep-seated issues with it. My significant other, Jenna, holds a deep and abiding respect for one of our local rabbis who felt there were anti-Semitic overtones, and I'm inclined to listen to Jews when it comes to what they thing about that aspect.
As for the violence: Well, I've never liked the sugarcoated versions of this story that we're often shown. Most films about this topic and most of the educational literature tend to gloss over the violence, and it's about time someone portrayed it with the brutality that's intrinsic to the story (assuming, of course, that Gibson got it right). Hell, I don't think there's ENOUGH violence in the media -- or, more precisely, I don't think there's enough REALISTIC violence in the media. Take it from someone who's been there, too many times to count -- TV or movie violence usually bears little resemblance to real violence, and if people were confronted with the real thing (or realistic depictions of it) I don't think we'd he quite as quick to sanction capital punishment, our current prison conditions, military action or a host of other things.
I'm not sure exactly how much of the theology I believe: I don't necessarily believe Jesus was born of a virgin or even came back from the dead -- there's some compelling arguments against those elements that come from valid historical and mythological sources. I also have issues with the "only begotten son of God" bit, as the early Gnostics (who were violently surpressed) derived different ideas on that from the scriptures. Some sects held, in fact, that Christ was simply a man who opened himself up to such a powerful relationship with God (higher power, the Force, whatever) that he was able to accomplish great things -- Jesus is quoted in the Bible as saying that there was nothing he could do that everyone else couldn't, with enough faith.
The bottom line of the story, though, is that Jesus MIGHT have been the first of history's teachers/prophets/wise men/what-have-you to preach a philosophy of nonviolence and universal love -- kind of a hippie Jewish carpenter. And he was killed for his teachings. I've often wondered about the whole idea that he HAD to die to save us from ourselves, as though that somehow justified things or that God simply couldn't allow us to continue without inflicting that kind of pain (of course, that's a whole different story). The lesson to be learned, I think, is from the fact that people killed someone who wanted nothing more than for people to stop judging, killing, hating, and being selfish assholes.
I also think that if he were to return today with the same message he'd be killed again, probably by the conservative right, for much the same reason he was killed 2,000 years ago -- subversion.
Interesting how many of our great thinkers, the people who brought so much progress to humanity, have been killed or tortured for doing so: Socrates was forced to drink hemlock for corrupting the youth of Athens, the persecution of Galileo for proving the earth went around the sun, and Martin Luther King was shot for essentially preaching Jesus' message of universal brotherhood (people sometimes forget he was a minister, or that the many horrendous crimes committed by the church wouldn't have been sanctioned by Jesus himself).
By the way: Has anyone here ever read "The Grand Inquisitor" from the novel The Brothers Karamazov by Doestoevsky? If you want to read a VERY interesting take on the devil and how Christ's message/execution might have been exploited by the church, it's an EXCELLENT piece of literature.
I'm on a sin-free diet. Low carbs, no sin, and guilt free.
