"Some Say ICP Fans Part of a Religious Cult"

Onibubba · Post by **Onibubba** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:35 pm

ICP...I think I found myself tapping my foot to some of it if it was played at the last Temple. And from what I've heard, it is not bad music, just not what I seek out and enjoy. But the music doesn't really bother me...

I think what bothers me about fans of this band though is the same thing that bothers me about fans of Manson (Marilyn, not Charlie). A lot of fans seem to dress like they are in the band. And I take it, from some of these posts, that in a way, they are: They are part of its extended family.

I mean do whatever floats your boat and wear what you like, just keep in mind that there will always be some of us that "just don't get it" or may have forgotten what it is like to be young and not give a fuck.

tat2jay · Post by **tat2jay** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:12 pm

Onibubba wrote:ICP...I think I found myself tapping my foot to some of it if it was played at the last Temple. And from what I've heard, it is not bad music, just not what I seek out and enjoy. But the music doesn't really bother me...

i know this goes off topic slightly, but i am SO glad to see an example in action of someone hearing somthing they dont seek out and tapping their foot to it - at the very least you can now say your slightly familiar with it

Vachy · Post by **Vachy** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:34 pm

*woah* I've been busy this week, so I'm in on this late, but oh well...

I don't consider myself a juggalo, because while I like a lot of Psychopathic Records music, I'm not a huge fan of it. But I do highly respect it though, and I own a few CDs. So I feel the need to defend it.

Zeo wrote:Hey, wasn't the world supposed to end when the 6th Joker's Card came out or something?

Indeed. Listen to the lyrics of "Thy Unveiling" (the last song on Shangri-La): "...truth is we follow God, we've always been behind him, the carnival is God and may all juggalos find him, may the juggalos find God..."

Sound like an evil cult to me. :roll:

Also in that song it talks about the positive messages that are in the songs about murder and such. And when you keep that in mind while listening to their music, the "messages" are easily picked out. Especially in Hell's Pit (this being the point of the CD...)

I have read the autobiography "Behind the Paint" and it really is a well written and touching book. I would reccomend reading it wether you are an ICP fan or not.

My fiance is an all out juggalo- he owns more Psychopathic CD's than I can count, has various t-shirts, is contemplating a tattoo, etc. He is also one of the most intelligent people I have ever met. But I will admit that most juggalos I have met, mainly those who are also mall rats, are not the world's biggest geniuses. But they are almost never violent and almost always extremely friendly. One will approach him or he them, and they will instantly form a friendship. Many of these lasting.

I'm sure that if it weren't for ICP a lot of juggalos would be in bad situations. (Jail, gangs, etc.) Instead, ICP makes music that they can relate to and that anyone with an open mind can enjoy, and encourages them to have morals, follow their dreams, keep an open mind, find God, and treat each other as family. And it works. How many things in this world can you find that do that? On such a wide scale? Especially targeted to that audience?

I am not saying everyone has to like ICP or their fans. And there are people in every scene and group on earth that make it look bad. But before you judge something, especially an entire group of people, I would encourage you to weigh pros and cons and know a little more about it.

Sorry, I think I just poked the drama with a stick...

4X541N7 · Post by **4X541N7** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:34 am

I have a question....

How many of you have played '360 degrees of Morton's List'?

Probably very few...But this is a game created by Juggalos...If you want to figure out the Juggalo direction...Pick up a copy...Wait...It's red listed...

Anyway...If you where to read it...Yes you would find games with plots to break the law in several different ways...

But, you would also find entries that challenge the person on a more intellectual level...Forcing the participant to socialize & learn...

I have only played a few times, I will admit...But the last time we played, one challenge was to hold a conversation with someone of a different culture, & learn about it...

Needless to say, we failed...For whatever reason, people don't really want to talk to a group of 8 people, with strange hair, & tattoos...lol...

But my point here is, if these where really Sociopathic people, why would they, not only incourage, but challenge, diversity, & understanding...

-eNd-

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:35 pm

All I can say is that I'm old enough to remember when ICP first came out, and you know, never in a billion years would I have guessed they'd still not only be around but have this bizarrely massive legion of fans.

I was all thinking "This joke will get old REAL fast."

Shows what I know.

Now, the Legendary Pink Dots, THAT'S a band that deserves a cult following.

JealousofRegis · Post by **JealousofRegis** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:40 pm

DarkVader wrote:
JealousofRegis wrote:I don't like goth OR icp
so fuck it
and shit

So, I have to ask:

If you don't "like goth", why are you on this forum?

Please don't take that as an attack - it's a serious question as to your motivation to bother with a forum named KnoxGothic.com.

good question
i'm goin to taco pimp

Russo · Post by **Russo** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:27 pm

After reading this thread, I still don't see any positive message in ANY of their songs. It'd be different if they would just admit their songs are for entertainment value and not bring Jesus into it. Really, what message of God is in this song?

I stab people, 4, 5 people everyday
I tried to see a shrink to stop that shit but it ain't no FUCKing way
I stabbed him, stabbed his nurse and his fucking cat
Stabbed them! Stabbed them all like that

Praise Jesus!

:roll:

Mercurygriffin · Post by **Mercurygriffin** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:19 am

Look yall, I'm not saying that you have to like it. All I am saying is that some of us like the shit and we don't need everyone and their fucking cuson to tell us how much they hate it. We know you hate it. If you didn't then you would just leave it alone. How many ICP songs have you heard? Twizted? A.B.K.? Blaze? Esham? Dark lotus? Just curious. Maybe all you need is to go to a gathering with some Los and Lettes. It might be fun. Road trip anyone? :twisted:

karmakaze · Post by **karmakaze** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:48 am

all i am saying.. is that i was dancing with a pretty girl. then icp was played. and i had to stop. :weep:

Russo · Post by **Russo** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:52 am

karmakaze wrote:all i am saying.. is that i was dancing with a pretty girl. then icp was played. and i had to stop.

Cockblocked by the ICP!

abreeskye · Post by **abreeskye** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:03 am

div wrote:I very seriously doubt that in twenty years there will be legions of 30-somethings in clown make-up running around proclaiming that they are juggalos and juggalettes. Most likely they'll be embarrassed that they ever did such a thing.
.

I have to disagree with this.

I've been into ICP for about 8 years or so I guess. While I've never worn clown makeup, I do consider myself a juggalo.

I'm getting closer to 30....(more so than I'd like

) ....nothing has changed for me yet. They still appeal to me. I'll never be embarassed.

Vachy, thank you for your comments.

I agree that more people should read behind the paint. I've read most of it, and can't finish it until I find where I packed it when I moved.....

Not very many cds have actually made me cry. Wraith: Shangri-la did. I remember the first time I listened to it...I was at work,...the job I had at the time allowed you to bring cd players and stuff. I sat in my little cubicle and listened to the cd from the first song to the last. I cried like a BITCH! hahah

Finding out who the butterfly was made me ball too. All these years, I always wondered...who the fuck is the butterfly??? Now we all know

Drexn · Post by **Drexn** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:42 am

Honestly, what does any of this matter? Personally, I hate the music that ICP puts out. It's jut not my thing. However, I have enough respect for people to not judge an entire group based solely on 1) the acts of the juvenile masses or 2) my personal opinion of the music proper.

I have many "Juggalo" friends. Good friends even. While we may not be able to have a conversation on musical tastes, we still remain friends.

To judge Juggalos on how the mallrats act is a little bit ignorant, in my opinion. It would ammount to judging the gothic scene based on how the mallrat Mansonites act. Before anybody throws the "Hot Topic" card back into the game, I am a former Asst. Manager of a HT in Nashville. I got my fair disage of both groups of mallrats. We, as the gothic scene, know better than to compare ourselves to the actions of the mansonite mallrats. So why do some do it with the juggalos? It's, honestly, not fair. Then again, this isn't a fair world. So perhaps I expect too much out of humanity as a whole.

While you or I may not be able to find the positive or appealing aspect in the lyrics of ICP, that doesn't mean that other people cannot. And they should not be insulted for finding such joy in their lives. While I would not issue a threat of a "beatdown" for somebody insulting my way of life, I would get quite angry if I had to put up with it on a regular basis.

I listen to such upbeat and inspiring bands as HIM and Velvet Acid Christ ( :roll:

). I know that more than one person won't understand how I can find something redeeming in HIM's incessant obsession with singing on death and love, or VAC's rather twisted mindset as a whole. However, I do. It's a matter of personal choice, so to each his own.

I saw mentioned that some don't understand how ICP can fit in with Goth, because it's rap and etc and so on. Well, I personally don't see how a lot of things get associated with the goth scene. At any given point you can hear speed metal, death metal, industrial, death disco, ebm, synth-pop and so much more... None of those are goth in and of themselves, but they're pretty much accepted. So, isn't the Goth scene at this point more of an acclectic association of music than a select one type of music? As far as I've found in this state, there's no one night that plays only "Goth" music, save on certain theme nights.

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but some people just need to get over it. Some of the arguments against the juggalos sound exactly like the "mainstream" arguments against Goth.

Russo · Post by **Russo** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:13 am

While your post had some good points, I'd like to address this:

Drexn wrote:Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but some people just need to get over it.

I'm not exactly sure what we're "under." You either like a style of music or you don't. You can defend what you believe in. No one has to "get over" anything. I don't expect someone who likes ICP to read my posts, jump up and exclaim, "By God, she's right! I shall never again listen to that dreadful band!" And I'm pretty sure the Juggalos on this forum don't expect me to do that either. We're just here to voice our opinions in a non-threatening (read: no beatdowns) manner.

tat2jay · Post by **tat2jay** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:18 am

karmakaze wrote:all i am saying.. is that i was dancing with a pretty girl. then icp was played. and i had to stop.

thats the part where you take a break, buy a drink, and have a lil conversation

tat2jay · Post by **tat2jay** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:29 am

Russo wrote:While your post had some good points, I'd like to address this:

Drexn wrote:Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but some people just need to get over it.

I'm not exactly sure what we're "under." You either like a style of music or you don't. You can defend what you believe in. No one has to "get over" anything. I don't expect someone who likes ICP to read my posts, jump up and exclaim, "By God, she's right! I shall never again listen to that dreadful band!" And I'm pretty sure the Juggalos on this forum don't expect me to do that either. We're just here to voice our opinions in a non-threatening (read: no beatdowns) manner.

i think that the "get over it thing" was prompted by number of posts that got elevated above the friendly conversation level
but i do agree with you, this thread will most likely not convert fans or non fans to the other side, but it would be nice if all involved would just agree to disagree without any pigeon holeing or name calling (cept for calling fans juggalos cuz thats ok, at least i think its ok)
maybe this thread wouldnt have gone this far had ICP not been givin the opportunity to invade a scene supported club night on the playlists, well , thats too bad - i dont listen to skinny puppy, im not a big fan of joy division - i dont hate them - but i doubt i will ever listen to them just cuz i want to hear it. but ya know what, that doesnt keep me from being accepted into this family, thats what i liked about it this particular group of people to begin with. yes, music is USUALLY a very common thread, but there is a sense of not belonging anywhere else that kinda binds us all together
for the most part we take care of each other too - i love that
so again i say, love them, hate them, fart on their cds, mount them above an eternal flame in your living room, whatever - its a friggin band

love you guys - really i love all you guys

!!! grooup hug!!! i am a sappy goth today! WOOOHOOOO! now lets get a jack and coke and dance a jig!

Russo · Post by **Russo** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:40 am

tat2jay wrote:
Russo wrote:While your post had some good points, I'd like to address this:

Drexn wrote:Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but some people just need to get over it.

I'm not exactly sure what we're "under." You either like a style of music or you don't. You can defend what you believe in. No one has to "get over" anything. I don't expect someone who likes ICP to read my posts, jump up and exclaim, "By God, she's right! I shall never again listen to that dreadful band!" And I'm pretty sure the Juggalos on this forum don't expect me to do that either. We're just here to voice our opinions in a non-threatening (read: no beatdowns) manner.

i think that the "get over it thing" was prompted by number of posts that got elevated above the friendly conversation level
but i do agree with you, this thread will most likely not convert fans or non fans to the other side, but it would be nice if all involved would just agree to disagree without any pigeon holeing or name calling (cept for calling fans juggalos cuz thats ok, at least i think its ok)
maybe this thread wouldnt have gone this far had ICP not been givin the opportunity to invade a scene supported club night on the playlists, well , thats too bad - i dont listen to skinny puppy, im not a big fan of joy division - i dont hate them - but i doubt i will ever listen to them just cuz i want to hear it. but ya know what, that doesnt keep me from being accepted into this family, thats what i liked about it this particular group of people to begin with. yes, music is USUALLY a very common thread, but there is a sense of not belonging anywhere else that kinda binds us all together
for the most part we take care of each other too - i love that
so again i say, love them, hate them, fart on their cds, mount them above an eternal flame in your living room, whatever - its a friggin band

love you guys - really i love all you guys !!! grooup hug!!! i am a sappy goth today! WOOOHOOOO! now lets get a jack and coke and dance a jig!

Jay, you should start a children's television program. Seriously. :lol:

JaNell · Post by **JaNell** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:07 am

Russo wrote:
Jay, you should start a children's television program. Seriously.

No shit, he SHOULD.

Drexn · Post by **Drexn** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:30 pm

Russo wrote:While your post had some good points, I'd like to address this:

Drexn wrote:Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but some people just need to get over it.

I'm not exactly sure what we're "under." You either like a style of music or you don't. You can defend what you believe in. No one has to "get over" anything. I don't expect someone who likes ICP to read my posts, jump up and exclaim, "By God, she's right! I shall never again listen to that dreadful band!" And I'm pretty sure the Juggalos on this forum don't expect me to do that either. We're just here to voice our opinions in a non-threatening (read: no beatdowns) manner.

"Get over it" wasn't imploring anybody to suddenly change their opinions on an entire style of music, but be more accepting of the people who listen to it. Hating all juggalos because you dislike the music or you've met the stereotypical mallrat theif would equate to hating all southern people because you meet one aggressive hillbilly. What I'm saying should be "got over" is a closed mindset against something that some people don't get, and likely won't. I'm not suggesting that people should randomly start listening to ICP, or that people should stop listening to ICP because others don't like them. What I'm suggesting is that people simply accept that people have different tasts. -Vastly different- tastes. I'm sure nobody wants to be judged because somebody doesn't "get" the music they listen to.

But, that's just me voicing my opinion. I'm not telling anybody to do this or that, just stating what I think.

Mercurygriffin · Post by **Mercurygriffin** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:29 pm

Jay -Cheers and thanks for not judging us.
Drexen- Nice to see a non-fan who knows whats up.
Russo- And all this time I thouhgt you to be open minded and once agian, cool hair.
Karma- You my boy, sorry you felt you had to leave the dancefloor.

I have nothing but love for this scene but more and more I see that my brothers and sisters are not as welcome as I thought. All I asked was for people that I like being around stop dissing us so blatantly. That is why I tried to talk this out and find common ground. I feel as if part of me is not welcome. On top of being a bit goth and a clubKid I am also a juggalo and a pagan. I also hang out with stinking hippies. I know some of you hate them. That is ingrained in the meaning of goth for some of you. I guess what it all comes down to is when I arrive at the clubs from now I will have to settle for being a pasty faced, depression riddled, all black wearing, bigot unto my self. Thanks for giving me a new direction.

P.S. Has anyone figured out why I have the avitar I do?

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Celestial Dung · Post by **Celestial Dung** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:40 pm

Two minds of course. On the one hand I can see where people would feel that others are jumping all over their music and making them feel like slow low life forms. for whatever reason we associate a persons intelligence by what kind of music they listen to which is specifically idiotic.

On the other hand I do think some can be a little over sensetive about their choice in music. Say one bad things about it and you got an onslaught of poor me's. Poor me people are saying bad things about my music. Poor me they don't like the same stuff as I do and they actually express their opinions.

In the middle their should be respect for a person regardless of what music they listen to but still the free will to comment on it

As for the ICP following god things, I heard it mostly from The Unveling. Short story, ICP caught a lot of their fans off guard talking about god being behind everything. Thing is, there's also a idea that perhpas they are playing a bit of a prank on people.

Here's the lyrics. Me I go on the "pulling a prank idea". It just sounds way too tongue in cheek for me.

Thy Unveiling
By ICP4

Carnival of Carnage,
The Ringmaster,
The Riddle Box,
The Great Milenko,
The Amazing Jeckel Brothers,
and The Wraith

looks like were all out of time brother!
Everybodys out of time!
Fuck It, We gots to tell them
All secrets will now be told
no more hidden messengers
this is it yall
times up
everything be out right here
no need for the reverse talking
the truth.

Now we have been told this carnival shit has touched many lives.
People have fuckin` sworn to us they too can feel it inside.
What is it that draws you in, this magic that compels you?
We`ve been waiting six fuckin` joker cards to finally tell you.
This messengers and hints were there, all though most never picked up on them.
We snuck em` in subliminally with that wicked shit around them.
We mentioned more and more of this on every Joker's Card.
The bottom line always the same, you aint have to look hard.
We wickedly kick it, inflict it, you get it, get with it and dig we don't preach it flat, cause some ninjas don`t wanna get with ya, they quick to forget ya without the hatchet and gat out.
So we rose the hatchet, do or die, now Juggalos standing tall, after all 6 have risen the end of time will consume us all. It aint got nothing to do with us, It aint Psychopathic Records!
All we`re doing is pointing this shit out to you, we in this together! Who`s behind the Dark Carnival, thet Gatherings and the hatchet? Who`s beind Dark Lotus, the circus and everybody at it?
Who inveted Juggalos and Juggalette and fuckin Faygo showers? What about that feeling you get when bumping our shit, who`s behind these Juggalo powers?
This ain`t no fuckin fan club, It aint about making a buck. Don`t buy our fuckin action figures bitch, i dont give a fuck. It aint About Violent J or Shaggy, the Butterfly or seventeen.
When we speak of Shangri-La, what you think we mean? Truth is we follow GOD, we`ve always been behind him, The Dark Carnival is GOD and may all Juggalos find him!

May The Juggalos Find Him!
May The Juggalos Find Him!
May The Juggalos Find Him!
He's out there, He's Out there!

We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
We don't care what happens now.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
We swing our hatchet and we`re proud.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
Painted faces in the crowd.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
The Carnival will carry on.

He`s Out There!
May The Juggalos Find Him!
He's Out There!
May The Juggalos Find Him!

We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
The Carnival will carry on.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
The Carnival will carry on.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
Painted faces in the crowd.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
Our carnival will carry one.

yeh, he`s everywhere!
Im sayin he's anywhere!
juggalos, hes out there!
yeh, yeh, everywhere!
He's Out There

Come see the show,
big top show,
Walk in and hang with the dead carnival
Dead dirty carnies, dead juggalos
Walk in and hang with the dead carnival

he`s out there!

Juggla, Juggla, fuck with the juggla
Juggla, Juggla, fuck with the juggla
Juggla, Juggla, fuck with the juggla
ya cant fuck with the juggla

May the Juggalos find him!
May the Juggalos find him!
He's out there!
May the Juggalos find him!
May the Juggalos find him!
He's out there! He`s out there!

We all gonna die, but I`m not gonna fry
Even though most never try.
I`m not gonna let this pass me bye, no.

This is our world! This is our world! This is our world!
SO GET THE FUCK OUT!
This is our world! This is our world! This is our world!
SO GET THE FUCK OUT!

We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
We don`t care what happens now.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
We swing our hatchets and we`re proud.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
Painted faces in the crowd.
We`re not sorry if we tricked you!
The Carnival will carry on.

Suck My Nuts! Bitch, Fuck You!
Suck My Nuts! Bitch, Fuck You!

Inner City Posse got the Dog Beats
ICP we got the dog beats!
Inner City Posse got the Dog Beats
Icp we got the dog beats!

3 rings, a ding-a-ding-ding
people love to point and stare
3 rings, a ding-a-ding-ding
its the same as everywhere

Murder Go Round,Murder Go Round
How ya gonna fuck wit a wicked clown!
Murder Go Round,Murder Go Round
How ya gonna fuck wit a wicked clown!

He's out there!
We don't care what happen's now!
We swing our hatchets and we`re proud!
Painted Faces in the crowd!
The Carnival will carry on!
The Carnival will carry on!
Painted Faces in the crowd!
The Carnival will carry on!
The Carnival will carry on!

Thank you! ladies and gentlemen.
Thank you for joining us
We hope you`ve enjoyed the Wraith's exibit of Shangri-La
and soon as you die, this will be yours!
Thank you for joining us! Thank you byyyatch!
hahahaha, always remeber to fuck off!
Fuck Off! good bye!.