Thanks for a good Sanctus!!!
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vicious_blood
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Hear No Evil
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As much as I love X, he had been informed of the rules and knew what would happen if they were broken. It is not as if he made a mistake based in ignorance. He's an adult and made a conscious decision. I don't think there's anything more to say on the subject.
This particular situation also stands to underscore the fact that we will not play favorites when it comes to insuring that the policies of venue and KG are upheld. If you don't like those policies, please do us all a favor and don't participate.
That all aside, stuff happens and I still hope X chooses to remain my friend but if he does not it won't be because I am not receptive.
This particular situation also stands to underscore the fact that we will not play favorites when it comes to insuring that the policies of venue and KG are upheld. If you don't like those policies, please do us all a favor and don't participate.
That all aside, stuff happens and I still hope X chooses to remain my friend but if he does not it won't be because I am not receptive.
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Hardcoregirl
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Arkady wrote:As much as I love X, he had been informed of the rules and knew what would happen if they were broken. It is not as if he made a mistake based in ignorance. He's an adult and made a conscious decision. I don't think there's anything more to say on the subject.
This particular situation also stands to underscore the fact that we will not play favorites when it comes to insuring that the policies of venue and KG are upheld. If you don't like those policies, please do us all a favor and don't participate.
That all aside, stuff happens and I still hope X chooses to remain my friend but if he does not it won't be because I am not receptive.
I know that X knew that he would be thrown out if he handed out flyers...and that he did it anyway...but thats not the issue in my head or anyone else's. The issue is *why* it was a problem to hand out flyers? If its a BlueCats policy not to support anything else in Knoxville, thats pretty sickening, and I'll be happy to get out the word on that bunch of b.s., and take it up with them and make sure not to buy any drinks from their bar. However, I read over the FAQ and I didn't find anything on K.G. saying that no one else in town was allowed to throw a party and invite their friends.
I fully understand that you must uphold the policies of your venue...but it didn't seem to me that it was the bouncers that kicked X out, but a KG admin. I may be wrong though, I realize you are now an employee of BlueCats, so you probably are more informed of this than I am.
I just want everyone to be happy and there is more enough of the pie to go around....it's just silly for friends to get into it over silly shit...
I want to support ALL events in Knoxville as much as possible, I promote KG and Sanctus *all the time* and will promote other things that my friends do...I won't uphold a double standard and not help one set of friends over the other...thats just not my style.
I don't think you have a problem with all this personally Jason... I think you just want everyone to be happy and enjoy themselves.
No matter what, I hope we can all remain friends and not take other's business ventures personally...most of us are just trying to get by, and some are trying to support families and provide entertainment for all of Knoxville....it's really not so evOl and diabolical.
"Oh no. Please don't antagonize hardcoregirl. We'll all regret it." -DarkVader
Actually, thats just the point.
I had heard from others that it was not ok. I along with most of the community think/thought that it was insanely idiotic to let ashville/nashville/atlanta people be allowed to pass out fliers, and i...for something that I am participating in...can not.
Allthough, i have issues with that, i'm willing to call it a draw and say kudos for NOT playing favorites.
The bottom line is, i do still consider you, jason a friend, cus you had nothing to do with the bullshit that was dealt down on me. I also must inform anyone, who cares, that i will NEVER attend another event at Blue Cats, because of their frat boy security. Their actions were the icing on the cake, and honestly the reason i still fume.
Telling ME, that i don't belong in a bar, if i am straight edge, or a recovering alcaholic is BULLSHIT, any way you slice it. You can cut it like bread, pizza, or cheese, its still GARBAGE. The fact they think its cool to surround me with security cus they're cool is another thing i thought to be bullshit.
The only way anyone will EVER see my face at blue cats again, is for a steele cage challenge with that one particular bouncer, who MADE me take a stamp.
I had heard from others that it was not ok. I along with most of the community think/thought that it was insanely idiotic to let ashville/nashville/atlanta people be allowed to pass out fliers, and i...for something that I am participating in...can not.
Allthough, i have issues with that, i'm willing to call it a draw and say kudos for NOT playing favorites.
The bottom line is, i do still consider you, jason a friend, cus you had nothing to do with the bullshit that was dealt down on me. I also must inform anyone, who cares, that i will NEVER attend another event at Blue Cats, because of their frat boy security. Their actions were the icing on the cake, and honestly the reason i still fume.
Telling ME, that i don't belong in a bar, if i am straight edge, or a recovering alcaholic is BULLSHIT, any way you slice it. You can cut it like bread, pizza, or cheese, its still GARBAGE. The fact they think its cool to surround me with security cus they're cool is another thing i thought to be bullshit.
The only way anyone will EVER see my face at blue cats again, is for a steele cage challenge with that one particular bouncer, who MADE me take a stamp.
I'm a big bright shining star......
OK - I've got a few things to say here:
1: Thank you all for coming out to Sanctus and making it one of the best goth events in the Southeast! Knoxville, TN is now on the map as a gothic destination, something that has never happened before in this town's history, and something that I would have thought impossible 3 years ago.
2: Blue Cats is particularly sensitive about flyering these days, as they've got a new bar that's moving into town. It is not cool with the club that ANY other local venues be promoted at Sanctus right now. We have managed to talk them into letting Nashville and Asheville events be promoted, but NOT Knoxville events that don't happen at Blue Cats.
3: It's honestly not OK with me that events being promoted by the private forum which may not be named be promoted at Sanctus. The concept of a forum that is invitation only has destroyed goth communities in other cities, and while I'm hoping that the Knoxville community is strong enough to resist that, i'm not happy that anyone in this community would support such a forum. It's devisive by its nature, and yes, it makes me angry. I'll even go a step further: I'll call upon that forum to open its membership to ANYONE who wants to sign up. If you want me to drop my personal opposition to events promoted by that site, encourage the owners of that site to drop their opposition to participation in their forum by the entire community.
4: Sanctus is honestly the only thing that keeps KnoxGothic.com open and free for all of you. We don't charge any membership fee. We don't have banner ads. We don't have pop-up ads. For quite a bit of KnoxGothic.com's life, the money to keep this site going came out of MY POCKET - and I'm not independently weathy. We keep this site open because we enjoy it, not for the money, and if I were wealthy enough to do it, Sanctus would be free, the drinks would be free, and I'd pay for a T3 so that KnoxGothic.com would load instantly on the fastest broadband connection. But since I don't have the money to do that, and I don't intend to start running banner ads or charging you money for KG forum membership, Sanctus is what keeps this site going for YOU. For someone to come into Sanctus and promote a competing event without even asking permission is rude. To do it deceptively is quite honestly a slap in my face. If you want to get pissed when I don't enjoy that slap, be my guest.
1: Thank you all for coming out to Sanctus and making it one of the best goth events in the Southeast! Knoxville, TN is now on the map as a gothic destination, something that has never happened before in this town's history, and something that I would have thought impossible 3 years ago.
2: Blue Cats is particularly sensitive about flyering these days, as they've got a new bar that's moving into town. It is not cool with the club that ANY other local venues be promoted at Sanctus right now. We have managed to talk them into letting Nashville and Asheville events be promoted, but NOT Knoxville events that don't happen at Blue Cats.
3: It's honestly not OK with me that events being promoted by the private forum which may not be named be promoted at Sanctus. The concept of a forum that is invitation only has destroyed goth communities in other cities, and while I'm hoping that the Knoxville community is strong enough to resist that, i'm not happy that anyone in this community would support such a forum. It's devisive by its nature, and yes, it makes me angry. I'll even go a step further: I'll call upon that forum to open its membership to ANYONE who wants to sign up. If you want me to drop my personal opposition to events promoted by that site, encourage the owners of that site to drop their opposition to participation in their forum by the entire community.
4: Sanctus is honestly the only thing that keeps KnoxGothic.com open and free for all of you. We don't charge any membership fee. We don't have banner ads. We don't have pop-up ads. For quite a bit of KnoxGothic.com's life, the money to keep this site going came out of MY POCKET - and I'm not independently weathy. We keep this site open because we enjoy it, not for the money, and if I were wealthy enough to do it, Sanctus would be free, the drinks would be free, and I'd pay for a T3 so that KnoxGothic.com would load instantly on the fastest broadband connection. But since I don't have the money to do that, and I don't intend to start running banner ads or charging you money for KG forum membership, Sanctus is what keeps this site going for YOU. For someone to come into Sanctus and promote a competing event without even asking permission is rude. To do it deceptively is quite honestly a slap in my face. If you want to get pissed when I don't enjoy that slap, be my guest.
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
Be far by me....but answer me ONE simple question.....
Since i was informed this was a buisiness move.
and since its a COMPETING event.....
tell me....how is it competition? It wasn't competition when i was doing an 80s night. It wasn't competition when that kid was doing sinister.
Its not on the same night, same week, or same club.
for bluecats, officially, tell me just how many of the people that will come on july 3rd would REALLY be in blue cats any other time BESIDES sanctus.
Lastly, i've fliered my wrestling shows before, those are as much a 'competing event' and that was never considered rude...or distastefull. Maybe its cus, the ones who like to be in control, at best will be under control.
Since i was informed this was a buisiness move.
and since its a COMPETING event.....
tell me....how is it competition? It wasn't competition when i was doing an 80s night. It wasn't competition when that kid was doing sinister.
Its not on the same night, same week, or same club.
for bluecats, officially, tell me just how many of the people that will come on july 3rd would REALLY be in blue cats any other time BESIDES sanctus.
Lastly, i've fliered my wrestling shows before, those are as much a 'competing event' and that was never considered rude...or distastefull. Maybe its cus, the ones who like to be in control, at best will be under control.
I'm a big bright shining star......
To address one more point:
The stamp issue is not one that I had ANYTHING to do with. I didn't comment on the stamp at the time it was given, because it was a club issue, not a KG issue.
I think it merits discussion with Blue Cats and other venues that we may work with in the future that it would be nice to have 3 kinds of stamps: a "customer may drink" stamp, a "underage" stamp, and a "legal age but not drinking" stamp. This is, ultimately, a club policy issue that we do not have control of - we can only make suggestions. Ideally, I'd like to see a situation where anyone who is of legal age may get a "legal age but not drinking" stamp and be eligible for free sodas as a designated driver - but KnoxGothic.com cannot control club policy, we can only make suggestions.
In the absense of such a system, I would ask that people NOT show up with pre-drawn Xs on their hands, as club personnel are likely to interpret this as an attempt to avoid the cover charge. You're more likely to get a positive response if you arrive without marked hands and request to be marked as underage.
The stamp issue is not one that I had ANYTHING to do with. I didn't comment on the stamp at the time it was given, because it was a club issue, not a KG issue.
I think it merits discussion with Blue Cats and other venues that we may work with in the future that it would be nice to have 3 kinds of stamps: a "customer may drink" stamp, a "underage" stamp, and a "legal age but not drinking" stamp. This is, ultimately, a club policy issue that we do not have control of - we can only make suggestions. Ideally, I'd like to see a situation where anyone who is of legal age may get a "legal age but not drinking" stamp and be eligible for free sodas as a designated driver - but KnoxGothic.com cannot control club policy, we can only make suggestions.
In the absense of such a system, I would ask that people NOT show up with pre-drawn Xs on their hands, as club personnel are likely to interpret this as an attempt to avoid the cover charge. You're more likely to get a positive response if you arrive without marked hands and request to be marked as underage.
Last edited by DarkVader on Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
DarkVader wrote:OK - I've got a few things to say here:
3: It's honestly not OK with me that events being promoted by the private forum which may not be named be promoted at Sanctus. The concept of a forum that is invitation only has destroyed goth communities in other cities, and while I'm hoping that the Knoxville community is strong enough to resist that, i'm not happy that anyone in this community would support such a forum. It's devisive by its nature, and yes, it makes me angry. I'll even go a step further: I'll call upon that forum to open its membership to ANYONE who wants to sign up. If you want me to drop my personal opposition to events promoted by that site, encourage the owners of that site to drop their opposition to participation in their forum by the entire community.
Thats almost like the pepsi challenge. In any case, KG has drama brewing weekly it seems, if its not my incredibly crappy treatment by your venue hosts, its tanner, or daralf, or assclown, or jackoff, or whatever his name is next week, causing a stir, because YOU can't ban his fucking IP, or him in general after you SEE his ip.
The artist formerly known as...whatever *edit that to the private forum blah blah blah* has had NO drama whatsoever. This board, a glorfied email acount, as any board is, lets people come in, use up space etc etc, and on and on.
Maybe you wouldn't have to spend so much money on a server and space and whatnot, if you just cleaned the closet once in a while.
I'm a big bright shining star......
DarkVader wrote:To address one more point:
The stamp issue is not one that I had ANYTHING to do with. I didn't comment on the stamp at the time it was given, because it was a club issue, not a KG issue.
I think it merits discussion with Blue Cats and other venues that we may work with in the future that it would be nice to have 3 kinds of stamps: a "customer may drink" stamp, a "underage" stamp, and a "legal age but not drinking" stamp. This is, ultimately, a club policy issue that we do not have control of - we can only make suggestions. Ideally, I'd like to see a situation where anyone who is of legal age may get a "legal age but not drinking" stamp and be eligible for free sodas as a designated driver - but KnoxGothic.com cannot control club policy, we can only make suggestions.
Again, i boycott Blue Cats, and ask the members of this forum, be it friends, enemies, i don't particularly care for you right nows, or whoevers to look into that as well.
Its not a support the scene movement. cus GOD knows i've supported this scene harder that perhaps 10 people around. I personally think if you wish to not have bad ju ju floating around for this or that, or whatever. I mean how long will it be before jacked up frat boy beats someones ass for having a cock and wearing a skirt?
and that is a very reasonable question.
I'm a big bright shining star......
X wrote:Thats almost like the pepsi challenge. In any case, KG has drama brewing weekly it seems, if its not my incredibly crappy treatment by your venue hosts, its tanner, or daralf, or assclown, or jackoff, or whatever his name is next week, causing a stir, because YOU can't ban his fucking IP, or him in general after you SEE his ip.
The artist formerly known as...whatever *edit that to the private forum blah blah blah* has had NO drama whatsoever. This board, a glorfied email acount, as any board is, lets people come in, use up space etc etc, and on and on.
Maybe you wouldn't have to spend so much money on a server and space and whatnot, if you just cleaned the closet once in a while.
Thank you for your suggestion. But we aren't interested in sanitizing KnoxGothic.com for a small clique to enjoy. We're interested in providing a forum for a community.
I can't ban every IP address a troll appears from - if I did that, I'd ban legitimate users. An IP address doesn't always translate to an individual, that's not how the internet works.
I can't ban every user I suspect of being a troll - I've loosened up on that policy lately, and I've banned users on suspicion more than I'd like to.
But I WILL NOT close this forum to new people. I WILL NOT close this community to new people. And I WILL NOT support a goth forum that does.
I think the money spent on keeping this forum open is money well spent.
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
DarkVader wrote:X wrote:Thats almost like the pepsi challenge. In any case, KG has drama brewing weekly it seems, if its not my incredibly crappy treatment by your venue hosts, its tanner, or daralf, or assclown, or jackoff, or whatever his name is next week, causing a stir, because YOU can't ban his fucking IP, or him in general after you SEE his ip.
The artist formerly known as...whatever *edit that to the private forum blah blah blah* has had NO drama whatsoever. This board, a glorfied email acount, as any board is, lets people come in, use up space etc etc, and on and on.
Maybe you wouldn't have to spend so much money on a server and space and whatnot, if you just cleaned the closet once in a while.
Thank you for your suggestion. But we aren't interested in sanitizing KnoxGothic.com for a small clique to enjoy. We're interested in providing a forum for a community.
I can't ban every IP address a troll appears from - if I did that, I'd ban legitimate users. An IP address doesn't always translate to an individual, that's not how the internet works.
I can't ban every user I suspect of being a troll - I've loosened up on that policy lately, and I've banned users on suspicion more than I'd like to.
But I WILL NOT close this forum to new people. I WILL NOT close this community to new people. And I WILL NOT support a goth forum that does.
I think the money spent on keeping this forum open is money well spent.
Edit:
Post edited to remove attack on Blue Cats security personnel and to remove event promotion in General forum.
-DV
Last edited by X on Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm a big bright shining star......
X wrote:Again, i boycott Blue Cats, and ask the members of this forum, be it friends, enemies, i don't particularly care for you right nows, or whoevers to look into that as well.
Its not a support the scene movement. cus GOD knows i've supported this scene harder that perhaps 10 people around. I personally think if you wish to not have bad ju ju floating around for this or that, or whatever. I mean how long will it be before jacked up frat boy beats someones ass for having a cock and wearing a skirt?
and that is a very reasonable question.
No, it's a silly question, and it's completely out of line. Blue Cats has treated this community VERY well, and will continue to do so.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO ONE IN THIS COMMUNITY HAS EVER BEEN BEATEN BY A MEMBER OF THE BLUE CATS STAFF. It's verging on insane to suggest otherwise.
Any further discussion in this direction will be treated as a personal attack on a member of the Blue Cats staff, and will be dealt with accordingly.
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
DarkVader wrote:No, it's a silly question, and it's completely out of line. Blue Cats has treated this community VERY well, and will continue to do so.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO ONE IN THIS COMMUNITY HAS EVER BEEN BEATEN BY A MEMBER OF THE BLUE CATS STAFF. It's verging on insane to suggest otherwise.
Any further discussion in this direction will be treated as a personal attack on a member of the Blue Cats staff, and will be dealt with accordingly.
After the events of last night, i call it infact a good question....the frat boys wanna beat a 'freak' so bad they can taste it.
Its not a personal attack, just the truth....and i'd be happy to have an exhibition with any of them.....i mean, hey, thats a dealing with accordingly.
I'm a big bright shining star......
X wrote:
It wasn't competition when that kid was doing sinister.
That "kid" did create a problem. He handed out flyers at Sanctus (when it was at Fairbanks) and the owners were very upset and asked Chris to leave. It was thoughtless to advertise at another venue without getting permission. Although Vader tried to go to bat for us, the owners wouldn't have it.
However, Erin ASKED if she could hand out flyers for Sanctus at Sinister, and we asked permission, and she did. Hell, Chris even helped her hand some out. But she was polite, and asked, and everything went great.
I believe the most important thing is common courtesy, which it seems, in this situation, was purposefully ignored. If you are asked not to do something at someone else's event, who in turn must respect the owners of the venue, you should not do it. I see this as a slap in the face to Sanctus, and agree wholeheartedly with Vader. The individuals with the flyers could have handed them out on the street, or even put them on car windshields, and still have gotten their message across without disrupting the peace and intentionally causing a problem. It really is hard to portray this new event with any dignity when the individuals involved are OK with acting like children and being "rebellious."
What a nasty start to a new event.
I have no personal beef with anyone. I just think that respect should be given when it is earned.
Sure, I'll try to be nicer, if you try to be smarter.
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Hardcoregirl
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Anyways...some interesting opinions and info added to the topic. Glad you all are pretty much acting like adults.
I personally was always taught to be respectful, that is of course, unless the person(s) weren't being respectable and didn't earn my respect. BlueCats no longer has my respect, yet nothing yet has ever really kept me from attending Sanctus, so whether I shall boycott or not is still up in the air...
Why should we support a venue that is only after their own best interests, even when another night poses no threat to their monthly gig? Is that what this scene is about, lining someones pockets? For the most part, most of us wouldn't be caught dead (or undead har har) at most BlueCats events...so, it's just ridiculous...but KG has nothing to do with their policies.
I think I might talk to an old friend who works for them about all this....
"Oh no. Please don't antagonize hardcoregirl. We'll all regret it." -DarkVader
ophelia wrote:X wrote:
It wasn't competition when that kid was doing sinister.
That "kid" did create a problem. He handed out flyers at Sanctus (when it was at Fairbanks) and the owners were very upset and asked Chris to leave. It was thoughtless to advertise at another venue without getting permission. Although Vader tried to go to bat for us, the owners wouldn't have it.
However, Erin ASKED if she could hand out flyers for Sanctus at Sinister, and we asked permission, and she did. Hell, Chris even helped her hand some out. But she was polite, and asked, and everything went great.
I believe the most important thing is common courtesy, which it seems, in this situation, was purposefully ignored. If you are asked not to do something at someone else's event, who in turn must respect the owners of the venue, you should not do it. I see this as a slap in the face to Sanctus, and agree wholeheartedly with Vader. The individuals with the flyers could have handed them out on the street, or even put them on car windshields, and still have gotten their message across without disrupting the peace and intentionally causing a problem. It really is hard to portray this new event with any dignity when the individuals involved are OK with acting like children and being "rebellious."
What a nasty start to a new event.
I have no personal beef with anyone. I just think that respect should be given when it is earned.
I did hand them out on the street. And I did put them on car windshields. And I told people about it. But I, as one-half of the people starting the new event, was told not to flyer inside. So, I didn't.
I did tell Barry that we were told not to flyer inside. But Barry is an adult with his own mind and did what he wanted to do.
And I'm not fighting with anyone at all. I just want to get it across that, as the representative of the new night, that is NOT being put on by "the forum which may not be named", I did respect what the representatives of Sanctus asked me not to do. I just don't want anyone to confuse this battle with the people who are putting this night on, because...I wasn't there when it happened, I didn't see what happened, and I can assure you that, as the only person there that is a part of putting on the new event, we didn't have anything to do with it, other than giving our djs flyers to help us put out. But again, I say that we let everyone that got flyers know that flyering at Sanctus was a no-no. I was just there, happily supporting the whole scene.
*nods*
I'm so goth I don't use fabric softener, because I like pain.
Serenity wrote:Not to sound retarded...which I can do at times..but, I heard about some other night on July 3rd? What is that?
I can't make it because I have to work:)
It's been written up in the "Upcoming Events" forum, under the "do something goth on a saturday" thread.
I'm so goth I don't use fabric softener, because I like pain.
Buttercup wrote:
Why should we support a venue that is only after their own best interests, even when another night poses no threat to their monthly gig? ... For the most part, most of us wouldn't be caught dead (or undead har har) at most BlueCats events...so, it's just ridiculous...but KG has nothing to do with their policies.
I don't care about personal beefs, but I do understand Blue Cats policy, even if that isn't the entire problem. They do have a big Saturday night venue, and even if it drew away five people, they could lose quite a bit of money. And, although I am not one, there are some KG'ers that do go to Blue Cats on Saturdays, because there really isn't much to do. It's like going to Burger King and handing out coupons for McDonalds. I can see why they would not want it to happen.
Sure, I'll try to be nicer, if you try to be smarter.
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