Karma.

[Jack]

Theology. I give this poll 1.8 days before being Dumpsterized.

[Celestial Dung]

I voted the third option only because it was the closest thing to a undecided. This is my concept of Karma to clarify...Karma is the belief that everything you do as a spiritual reaction. If you be nice to the grocer then perchance a customer will be nice to you. If you snipe back at the bagger then it's more likely that a customer will give you a tongue lashing. This is of cource the most basic of defenitions, and then one I'll aruge about here. Those wishing for a nice slow hot chocoloate read may look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

Anyway I'm undecided. One thing that's been wrapping around my brain lately is the concept of good and evil. Do the defenitions of good and evil rely more on the impact of an action then it's intent? Meaning if I do a piss poor thing to someone but somehow it ends up benefitting them was it an evil act or a good act? One side of me wants to think that it's the inent of the person that matters because that's what the inner person wants but on the other hand the inner person can mean little to shit in the physical world. Just because you think you are doing someone a favor by killing thing doesn't neccessarily mean you are.

Back to Karma. Technically a person following the laws of Karma, or at least how I best understand the concept, would technically qualify as a good person. But if that same person found a way to get out of karma would s/he do so? If so that changes the situation I think.

[Jack]

Anyway I'm undecided. One thing that's been wrapping around my brain lately is the concept of good and evil. Do the defenitions of good and evil rely more on the impact of an action then it's intent?

Intent is by far more important, because you can't know ahead of time the impact.

If I buy someone a Superbowl ticket and they get robbed and killed outside their hotel room, that karma is not on my head.

[vicious_blood]

I don't really believe in Karma.
I mean, it's like saying "Karma got him."...to an extent it's like saying "He got what he deserved." But when it comes right down to it, I think bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people sometimes, just because. No reason really. I don't really think there is some divine (or whatever) thing out there that's like making sure we get something good for another good deed we did...or vice versa. I do believe that some good deeds should be rewarded and all that crap.
But I don't know...maybe I'm just not understanding it.

[Jack]

I don't really believe in Karma.
I mean, it's like saying "Karma got him."...to an extent it's like saying "He got what he deserved." But when it comes right down to it, I think bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people sometimes.

Sure. But I have seen it happen far too many times that the same kind of bad thing happens to someone who has committed a bad act to disbelieve the notion.

Events tend to balance themselves out.

And it is a drastic simplification to say that "bad things happen to good people" or "good things happen to bad people". There are no such things as "good" or "bad" people. Everyone falls somewhere inbetween. Maybe that "good" person did something he told nobody about and that's why the "bad" thing happened to him?

[Nephilim]

I say it does not make you a good person.

Believe in karma or not, it doesn't matter. Your actions may be good, but if you are only doing them because you might invoke some sort of retribution later on kinda defeats the goodness of that act.

Doing good things because you want to makes you a good person, not because you feel like you have to, or else.

[Jack]

Doing good things because you want to makes you a good person

What if you want to do good things but don't? Are you a good or bad person, then? Because you just implied the action is not important. So, if I really, really want to joine the Peace Corp, but instead murder 12 children, am I a good person or a bad one?

[Celestial Dung]

"Intent is by far more important, because you can't know ahead of time the impact.

If I buy someone a Superbowl ticket and they get robbed and killed outside their hotel room, that karma is not on my head."

But in that example giving someone a superbowl ticket did not lead directly to their murder. In my opinion the person giving the superbowl tickets had nothing to do with the murder whatsoever. The action was strictly committed by the murderer.

[Jack]

But in that example giving someone a superbowl ticket did not lead directly to their murder. In my opinion the person giving the superbowl tickets had nothing to do with the murder whatsoever. The action was strictly committed by the murderer.

Yeah... that was my point. Just clarifying that we basically agree on this one.

[vicious_blood]

There are no such things as "good" or "bad" people. Everyone falls somewhere inbetween. Maybe that "good" person did something he told nobody about and that's why the "bad" thing happened to him?

Good point. But I still don't think that there is something out there ready to deal out some consiquences (sp?). I'm not saying there is no such thing, I personally just don't believe in it. Just like I don't think we are all predestined to things. And just because someone messed up and did something wrong it doesn't mean that they deserve something bad to happen to them (all tho some people do deserve bad stuff ).
I mean, if a guy commits mass homicide or some shit, then I might think he deserves the death penalty or whatever. But I still don't believe there's some force out there dishing it out to good or bad people for good or bad deeds.
Call me a skeptic. I just don't buy it.

[Jack]

Call me a skeptic. I just don't buy it.

That's OK. Not believing in gravity won't stop you from falling to death.

[Nephilim]

Doing good things because you want to makes you a good person

What if you want to do good things but don't? Are you a good or bad person, then? Because you just implied the action is not important. So, if I really, really want to joine the Peace Corp, but instead murder 12 children, am I a good person or a bad one?

You ignored the rest of that sentence, read it again and then ask yourself what you just asked me. I made no implication that action is unimportant. In fact, I made neither implication. If you were wondering though, I think action is VERY important. After all, they do say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Frankly, if you have to wonder whether or not killing 12 children makes you a bad person then I would be worried about your mental health.

[Jack]

You ignored the rest of that sentence, read it again and then ask yourself what you just asked me.

So if you're saying that you're only a good person if you want to do things and do them... I get that, I reckon.

But don't you think it's nobler to want to do bad things and refuse, and do good things instead? Isn't that MORE good, because you're defying your very nature in order to make the world a better place?

[g0dz3lla]

If Karma were true, OJ would have been found after being murdered slowly with plastic sporks, anally rapped by a gang of STD infested bondage midgets.

[Nephilim]

You ignored the rest of that sentence, read it again and then ask yourself what you just asked me.

So if you're saying that you're only a good person if you want to do things and do them... I get that, I reckon.

But don't you think it's nobler to want to do bad things and refuse, and do good things instead? Isn't that MORE good, because you're defying your very nature in order to make the world a better place?

I believe not.

Why should that change the nature of the good that is done? Is this a contest? How do you know if you've won? What are you winning? Does it really matter?

Nobility has nothing to do with being a good person or not.

[g0dz3lla]

The whole following the rules of Karma in order to cover your ass is kinda like Christians avoiding "sin" because they don't want to make a like a marshmellow and roast. If you do good, or just things that aren't bad in general, out of fear of the consequences alone and not just because you desire to do goodwill for mankind does not make you anything special.

[Jack]

Then let me clarify - does following the rules of karma, even if you don't believe in it or are just covering your ass, does that make you a more valuable member of society than someone who does bad things?

[vicious_blood]

Then let me clarify - does following the rules of karma, even if you don't believe in it or are just covering your ass, does that make you a more valuable member of society than someone who does bad things?

I'd say to some point it does cause then at leaste you aren't ass raping an old blind woman.
But then again I don't believe in it so wtf am I talking about...?

[Nephilim]

Then let me clarify - does following the rules of karma, even if you don't believe in it or are just covering your ass, does that make you a more valuable member of society than someone who does bad things?

I'd say to some point it does cause then at leaste you aren't ass raping an old blind woman.
But then again I don't believe in it so wtf am I talking about...?

I would tend to agree, but again, goodness comes from doing good because you want to do good, not because you feel like if you don't then you will be punished.

[g0dz3lla]

That is quite a multifaceted issue. On one side, you have to have rules and consequences to force conformity(which may or may not pertain to doing "good things") to make a society stable. Yes, atleast in my opinion, it is nobler for a person to do good things for the fact that they desire to, rather than the fact that they feel forced.. or even if they refuse to do bad things because they are in fact bad and not because they simply fear the consquences. And yes, that *should* make someone more valuable to society.. but in reality society depends on people to do(or not do) these things for the greater good. The vast majority will not do only good unless forced.