Any agnostics/atheists in da hizouse?

celticsmith · Post by **celticsmith** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 6:24 pm

I don't believe that atheists exist..

...and I don't have enough proof to accept the existance of agnostics.

Regular Gnostics on the other hand....

iblis · Post by **iblis** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:24 am

Jack wrote:To paraphrase Terry Pratchett: "I don't believe in the supernatural because a fish doesn't believe in water."

Couldn't have said it better, myself.

I believe, myself. I believe that we're all fundamentally, wholeheartedly, sometimes terminally confused. To think that one knows the true heart or meaning of the universe must be boring. That, and a little bit dumb.

Synthpopalooza · Post by **Synthpopalooza** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:14 am

I'm not sure what I believe in ... altho, I do believe that a lot of organized religion these days is sadly misled and mistaken, and that the government has no place in it. Our country is based on the freedom of religion ... the freedom to worship how you choose, or even NOT to worship.

You guys should really have a listen to the Synthetik FM track "Technology". I wrote the music, but my friend Dan Burke (NukleoN) writes and sings the lyrics (he happens to be Atheist, by the way) and the song is about the pitfalls of being totally invested in religion rather than relying on technology to help yourself (i.e. the kid in Pennsylvania who died from bee stings cos his parents are religious and refused medical treatment) ...

http://www.mp3.com/synthetik

FalseAbsolution · Post by **FalseAbsolution** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:42 pm

Well this is my stance on things, take it as you will. I believe that what one believes in life is what happens in death, i believe that you hold all the power to what happens to you when you die. That's the only thing I know I believe in.

Other than that, I'm not sure what i truly believe in. I believe in the existence of ESP and things of that nature, i believe that there are beings in the "heavens" if you will. I belive in one's abilities to transcend to greater beings. If you will i believe that if you wish to transcend to a being like an angel i believe that you can transcend to it. I believe mostly in one being in control of oneself.

basically, I believe that a man is in control of their own lives and deaths and all things in between and after. I guess you could say i actually believe in the Human race........ Imagine that.

Malakelle · Post by **Malakelle** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:18 pm

Well, I do belive there is a higher power, I do have a hard time beliving in the Christian god, Alot has happened in my life that speaks there is a higher power. I just dont think I need to go to some small room, and listen to some old guy tell me what I need to think. I know what I feel in my heart, and in my soul.

I think belief is a very personal thing, and no one has a right to tell others they are wrong.

gabriel · Post by **gabriel** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:18 pm

here we go i believe that god is dead as the body laying in the cemitary next to my house so that is what of god all mighty i am truly sorry if this offends some people but you can not denie how you feel.

God has been sold more than his ways have been tought to his followers and further more why would he hurt them if he cared so much for them so as far as god goes fuck'em

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:34 pm

God doesn't hurt people. People hurt people.

Nemesis · Post by **Nemesis** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:22 am

I don't believe that the Junkie Christ exists... :lol:

The Liberal Vampyre · Post by **The Liberal Vampyre** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:15 am

Jack wrote:God doesn't hurt people. People hurt people.

Hey, that's true wisdom, there.

People created the concept of "God". Thus, anything anyone claims God says was created by human beings.

Additionally, I would argue organized religion was first used (and has always been used) to control and subdue the masses. Private faith, on the other hand, I can find respectable.

gabriel · Post by **gabriel** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:51 am

that is all god is a concept that all who follow him are just hiding from the true world of pain and torture and those who have stepped out of his shadow and have seen the darkness of the true world such as I not even your god can help me so if going to hell is the price i have to pay for what i believe in than so be it I will gladly burn just to prove my point God is fake where is the proof of him or her or what ever

iblis · Post by **iblis** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:03 pm

Jack wrote:God doesn't hurt people. People hurt people.

You know, when I think of this I naturally think, "Well, I suppose He hurts people by proxy, since He's supposed to be behind the creation of people in at least a round-about fashion."

But then I start to wonder precisely how many degrees of separation there really are between Man and God. And that's a distracting line of thought to follow.

Note: I don't believe in the Christian God, but rather a collective unconsciousness that we all contribute to and derive from. The question above still stands, and is perhaps even more profound in this light.

Hardcoregirl · Post by **Hardcoregirl** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:26 pm

gabriel wrote: all who follow him are just hiding from the true world of pain and torture and those who have stepped out of his shadow and have seen the darkness of the true world such as I

Boy..you sure are dark and tormented.

Living in America sure is rough.

Most christians I know live on the same planet as I do, and life doesn't seem easier for them or harder for me, because of our beliefs or lack thereof.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:44 pm

Buttercup wrote:Boy, you sure are dark and tormented

Morgan, you are so hardcore. Thanks for making me laugh this morning, I needed it.

The Stormstress · Post by **The Stormstress** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:02 pm

Here's a concept 4 ya... ALL gods/goddesses exist simply due 2 the faith & focused energy of their followers... However, if u do not believe n him/her/them, he/she/they cannot or simply do not impact u... or that, in fact, all gods/godesses may b aspects of the same being... or that it's all far beyond puny mortal comprehension...

Personally, :imo:

1 should not discount another's religion as fake, 1 should not force their beliefs on others, & 1 should not look 2 others 4 justification of their own faith; but, then who the fuck asked me... :twisted:

Synthpopalooza · Post by **Synthpopalooza** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:19 pm

Well, my opinion on this is:

I do believe there is a higher power. I do however, find a lot of fault with organized religion, as it has been responsible for so many brutal wars in our planet's history. Not only the Crusades, the 100 Years war, but also the slaughter of native americans by Spanish conquistadores who were attempting to foist the "new" religion onto the native peoples here. And of course there were the disgraceful witch trials in Salem. There are still even people today who would have us go back to those times. Even today, you have suicide bombings in Israel, the World Trade Center attacks, war in Iraq, ALL OF THIS done with religion as an excuse.

The Koran preaches, "Do not kill yourself." ... like, DUH! Strap a bomb to yourself, blow yourself up, and you think you're serving the Koran? I dunno ...

Maybe the world would be better off without organized religion.

junkie christ · Post by **junkie christ** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:01 pm

Synthpopalooza wrote:Maybe the world would be better off without organized religion.

AGREED.
to my knowledge (which in the subject of religion is VERY VERY vast....) very few EVER said it was a good idea that formed most of the major world religions.... the koran suggests minor structure but nothing past local setup.... christianity pre-editors said basicly the same thing, mainly focusing on organization being a meeting place and a moderator.... 95% of the other shit if the structure of christianity was ADDED by denomiation (spelling?) and governent-religious-reformation.... most pagans keep it local...... jews had organization of ritual, faith, and practice aimed locally and a loose way for them to keep in contact with each other and thats really all the structure they still have.... if christians stayed at that level of organization and dropped all the zealots and people who use it as a control engine i can only wonder how they would be viewed....

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:23 pm

Churches are like banks for the spirit - sure, both are safe places to store your money/faith, but they're run by boring, greedy bastards.

FalseAbsolution · Post by **FalseAbsolution** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:30 pm

Jack wrote:Churches are like banks for the spirit - sure, both are safe places to store your money/faith, but they're run by boring, greedy bastards.

There's something i can agree with. I too believe that orginized religon is a bad idea for me... and when the strongest religous structures of a city-state or a country for that matter get's their greedy hands on the government that's when i feel that all hell breaks loose.

there are a lot of things posted here that i can definatly agree with, but there's some that i don't agree with... like a few coments that Gabriel stated but i'm not gonna go there..... i think he was honestly trying to provoke attack on that one.

Saint Ignatious · Post by **Saint Ignatious** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:40 pm

Jack wrote:Churches are like banks for the spirit - sure, both are safe places to store your money/faith, but they're run by boring, greedy bastards.

Well said sir.

Synthpopalooza · Post by **Synthpopalooza** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:49 am

I feel one of the most pathetic eras in Christian history, the hundred years war, needs mentioning.

The root cause of it all were the greedy abuses of the Catholic church in the Holy Roman Empire (now Germany) ... an example of these: The notion that if one were Godless all his life, then accepted Christ right before he died, he didn't go straight to heaven, but instead to a temporary holding cell called "Purgatory" ... where you had to do time before being allowed into heaven.

Now one of the notions put forth by the Cath church was, of course, if you were to make donations (of the monetary kind of course) to the church, you could buy off time for your loved ones in Purgatory.

The 100 years war started when Martin Luther rebelled against these abuses ... but it all got so out of control that after awhile France got involved (and France had no religious stake in it at all) but by then it was more political than religious. But it was the most destructive war Europe had ever known at the time. Think of it as a middle-ages Vietnam.