Flirting 101: Philosophy, Etiquette, and Thoughts

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sun May 25, 2003 2:51 pm

Do you think it's okay to proposition someone the first time you meet?

Which do you prefer, subtlety and innuendo or direct aggressiveness?

What "tactics" will turn you immediately away?

Is flirting with someone who's in a relationship already okay?

At what point does it cease to be flirting and become foreplay?

Does flirting necessarily signify intent? (would you flirt with someone who you'd under no circumstances be willing to take things farther than flirting?)

What's the best "line" you've seen used sucessfully ( not cheesy found-this-in-a-book-called-10-Million-Pick-Up-lines... looking for real attempts here.... )

what i want to know is, how does one gracefully deflect flirting, without being like "hello my name is cathy-i-have-a-boyfriend"?

Hrm, interesting, I notice none of the males on this board have actually answered this question, although it wasn't specifically addressed to only females, although apparently a few were commenting... Pardon the Wanderer as he wanders out of the back...

(Btw, if you're male and you did and I missed ya, sowwy.)

Anyways, to the current questions, then one of my own:

1: Depends, how badly are you looking to get your face slapped if she's 'not that kind of girl'? I have propositioned (and been propositioned) on the first night meeting/date/whatever. I've also avoided it to try to keep her around so I wouldn't appear to just be looking for that. Taking someone home that night doesn't necessarily mean that you don't want to see them again, sometimes it just means you're blown away... and then, sometimes it really is a one night stand, please, don't make breakfast.

2: Subtlety is fine, as long as you're not so opaque about it that the clueless amongst us *can* pick it up. If you glance at us occassionally from across a bar to try to get our attention, and then don't look back when we catch you to try to see if you were just looking... or 'looking'... fuggit. Personally, I'm looking for a woman who knows what she wants and goes after it, but affairs of the heart tend to be a bit... painful, so most are reluctant to go after it more then a few subtle hints until something comes back to them in response. Best is a mix. Be subtle on the approach, then get to the damn point. Time is precious, don't waste it, for both sides of the party.

3: Tactics that will have me run:
A) Bragging about a past boyfriend. Yes, we know you're not a virgin. I do *not* want to know who else has been drilling for oil.
B) Doing it in front of your significant other. Yes, I realize some would consider it hiding, however, there's a modicum of respect there that I'm not going to flirt back with a girl who's boy is there unless I *know* him. No girl's worth a brawl with someone, and if you're taken, you're doubly not worth it.
C) Getting wicked aggressive with it. Flirting games, touching, slight molestation, fine. All good, I'll return the favor, hell, I have a hair fetish that most of the girls in the club I frequent put up with, I love to just play with it. Sit on my lap with your hands under your bum... you better be planning on more then 'flirting'.
D) Trying to pawn me off on your girlfriend. Do *not* make the approach for someone else, get my attention, have fun flirting with me, just to keep me around for someone else. It's *going* to backfire. I'm paying attention to YOU, not your friend, and everyone's just going to get pissed off in the end.

4: Flirting with someone in a relationship... Hrm. I'd have to say yes, because I do it a lot. However, it needs to be upfront. If you're boyfriend/husband/significant other/pet/slave/whatever is around, introduce as both, or talk about your friends you're with and mention your boyfriend in there. Why? I'll know the limits now. We're playing, nothing serious. If you get me seriously riled messin' with me while flirting, I may have to back off, or get confused, but in general, yes. Just be upfront about it. This topic gets completely confused when you have friends in 'open relationships'... It's enough to make you bang your head on a wall.

5: Flirting becomes foreplay when there's the implication that someone's getting laid that night, even if it's only a one sided misunderstanding. If the end result is expected to either have a raging hormone or an orgasm, you're now in foreplay.

6: Flirting signify intent... Yes, but that doesn't mean *that night*. Flirting signifies an interest in wanting to get to know you better, and let's face it, our bodies are our first weapon in attracting the other sex. Yes, weapon... If it wasn't for physical attraction we'd all sit around on chat groups meeting our special partners and then we could talk to them all day long and feel 'fulfilled', and share a checking account across state lines. Flirting is a way of attracting attention, and holding attention, playing with someone you like (friend or more), and generally enjoying the physical aspects of their company while allowing them to enjoy yours (no, I'm not talking about messing around under the bar. Someone running their hand simply up your arm can be amazing, depending on how it's done.) It signifies an indeterminate amount of interest. Don't expect more then what's offered, but if you keep it slow, you can try to keep turning up the heat to where *you* want it... just watch for the reaction checks.

7: Best 'line'? *ROFLS*
First, the history. Me and some friends from New York were discussing the best way to get a girl's attention without wasting your time and finding out if she's interested. There's a lot of girls in the club, and you just don't want to screw around with one if there's one that's really interested. We came to the conclusion that you compliment something that most men typically won't notice, then get to the point... sooo...
"Nice Shoes, wanna fuck?"
The only person I've seen able to use this with regluarity was a gay (flaming) friend who walked through the bar, and just went up the line, and got 5/12 women to say yes... with no slaps. The ones who were shocked just sat there with their mouths open at his brazenness. The humor value here is... only the gay guy could pull it off. I was almost decked and have since abandoned the attempt.

8: Deflecting flirting... yeah, that's always a bitch. I see that really badly out here in Phoenix, some of the cowboys out here are *really* bad about not backing off a girl. I'd say start with the intoxication level (most flirting *does* occur at the bars in my life nowadays, so you'll bear with me if this is biased to the club scene). If they're wrecked, just tell him you're not interested, flat up. If he doesn't get it, repeat. If he still doesn't get it, pour a drink in his lap. If he's sober, be polite, but as was mentioned, 'Ice Queen'. We'll get it, honest. Look around us while talking to us, don't hold our attention, let us know we don't have yours. Get involved in another nearby conversation off and on to make us feel uncomfortable about it, but come back to us so you're not 'completely' impolite, just trying to spend time with your friends. If after the second 'come back time' he's still not getting it, return to the conversation and outright ignore 'em.

Sadly, I wish I had to discuss ways that I get rid of unwanted flirting by ladies, but that's such a rare thing... come flirt!

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sun May 25, 2003 3:26 pm

Flirting is usually either coy or creepy, and that's two of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse right there.

junkie christ · Post by **junkie christ** » Mon May 26, 2003 3:04 pm

Nemesis wrote:Fuck off is good... also another good one to add to the arsenal is "Do you smell that? Did you fart or do you always smell like shit?" That one usually keeps 'em busy for a little while...

an old guitar player of mine used to say "damn bitch your making my herpes inflame!" and they would HAUL ASS away....

rules of flirting:
talking to you doesnt mean i want you (god i wish people in knox would pound that into their skulls)
you talking to me doesnt mean you want me
flirting is fun and innocent, as long as people remember that.
if someones says they are just flirting, take a hint
if your both flirting and it just never stops, use protection & lube as needed.

iblis · Post by **iblis** » Mon May 26, 2003 4:41 pm

ReddErin wrote:I find "fuck off" to be a good way to tell people I'm not interested.

Or simply, "Die." :mrgreen:

junkie christ · Post by **junkie christ** » Mon May 26, 2003 11:30 pm

iblis wrote:
ReddErin wrote:I find "fuck off" to be a good way to tell people I'm not interested.

Or simply, "Die."

i quit telling women i didnt want around me to die when she thought i said BI and came back with a male friend and both hit on me. god it took me months for my friends to leave me alone about that....... but ive NEVER ran out of a club embarassed before EXCEPT for that moment.

Exquisite Mystery · Post by **Exquisite Mystery** » Tue May 27, 2003 2:18 am

Wanderer wrote:
Do you think it's okay to proposition someone the first time you meet?

Which do you prefer, subtlety and innuendo or direct aggressiveness?

What "tactics" will turn you immediately away?

Is flirting with someone who's in a relationship already okay?

At what point does it cease to be flirting and become foreplay?

Does flirting necessarily signify intent? (would you flirt with someone who you'd under no circumstances be willing to take things farther than flirting?)

What's the best "line" you've seen used sucessfully ( not cheesy found-this-in-a-book-called-10-Million-Pick-Up-lines... looking for real attempts here.... )

what i want to know is, how does one gracefully deflect flirting, without being like "hello my name is cathy-i-have-a-boyfriend"?

1. I personally think it's ok to try and proposition anyone. There is no moral issue with it. That being said, I think it is exceedingly unlikely you would succeed in getting laid. It seems like most people want to know more about the person they are having sex with than " Hi my name is ___. And I work at ____. And I have a ____ fetish." The whole propositioning thing has worked all of once on me.... that's all I am going to say about that.

2. I enjoy subtlety and creativity in verbal flirting. As far as physical flirting, it seems to depend on my mood. You touch me when I am grumpy, you will get a *glare*. Other than that, someone else mentioned the whole concept of progression. Its true.. there is no formula for flirting. I personally like to be approached and touched with gentleness or reverence. If I am pleased , you can ...... hmmm nevermind... I am not going to give away that much detail. Suffice it to say, reading body language is the way to go... barring that, ask. Asking never hurts.

3. Ok, stupid shit.... Um, not remembering my name. Making assumptions about me. Being normal. Being too drunk . All of those things get someone an automatic "NO" from me. I am especialy picky about the drunkeness. If it requires alcohol to talk to me, then you aren't stong enough to wake up sober. I am not less imposing in the morning.

4. Yes people in a relationship are fair game if it isn't going to hurt someone. Since its hard to tell, I usually ask when I walk up if they are dating someone.. Besides, flirting is basically a compliment. Its saying, "Hi, you are attractive and interesting" which shouldn't be a bad reflection on anyone involved. Now if someone is going to get jealous or angry, of course it would be a stupid thing to do. Other than that, coupled (or whatever-ed) people are still people and still should be appreciated.

5. The difference between flirting and foreplay:.... hmm. I think its actually variable upon the situation. With actual sexual contact, it is foreplay.. Before that..... I guess that's the gray area. There is a difference in what percentage of the person's attention is focused on the activity. If the people are oblivious to others in the room, its foreplay. If they are just holding hands or something and still looking around, rather than at each other it's flirting. OTher than that.... who the hell knows.

6. Flirting does not signify intent. To a limited degree, I will flirt with people I won't have sex with as a form of compliment or to make them cheer the hell up.

7. I am too sarcastic for my own good. Lines don't work on me and I groan internally when I hear them used on others. All I can say is the worst one I ever seriously got was, " Hey baby, let's go fuck in my truck". Ick. That was bad enough to make me not go out ot bars for a year or two. Let me just say... I hate drunk redneck men over 50 with beer guts.

8. I suck at gracefully deflecting flirting. I rely too much on body language. I do the "ice queen" thing pretty well, but too many men (especially drunk men) can't seem to read body language at all. So then you have to be rude, which I hate.

That's my contribution. - Ex Mys

div · Post by **div** » Fri May 30, 2003 2:58 pm

Now comes the hypothetical questions portion of the class:

1.) You're single and at a club. You see a <insert your opposite in whatever sexual preference you have> across the room, and you like what you see. They notice you looking, and smile. How do you proceed from here?

2.) You're in a long-term relationship, and at a club with your significant other. A <insert your significant other's opposite in whatever sexual preferance they have> walks up to your significant other (you are across the room, watching) and begins flirting. Lingering touches, laughing at everything each other says, and they're standing close enough to each other that if they weren't clothed, they'd be fucking. How do you feel about this, and how do you react?

iblis · Post by **iblis** » Fri May 30, 2003 6:47 pm

div wrote:Now comes the hypothetical questions portion of the class:

1.) You're single and at a club. You see a <insert your opposite in whatever sexual preference you have> across the room, and you like what you see. They notice you looking, and smile. How do you proceed from here?

That depends on the availability of a tranq dart gun.

2.) You're in a long-term relationship, and at a club with your significant other. A <insert your significant other's opposite in whatever sexual preferance they have> walks up to your significant other (you are across the room, watching) and begins flirting. Lingering touches, laughing at everything each other says, and they're standing close enough to each other that if they weren't clothed, they'd be fucking. How do you feel about this, and how do you react?

I think a better question would be, "If they're not fucking, does it matter?"

Imp · Post by **Imp** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 2:29 am

div wrote:1.) You're single and at a club. You see a <insert your opposite in whatever sexual preference you have> across the room, and you like what you see. They notice you looking, and smile. How do you proceed from here?

That depends entirely upon my mood. If I'm feeling extroverted and brazen, it's time to walk straight up to them and start conversation. Extroverted and not-so-brazen, work my way across the room more slowly until I am next to him, smile, and say "hi." Introverted, make certain I've got his eyes, and wink. Jerk my head in that "come here" way. Whatever works, I suppose... the point is to engage in talk so as to be certain that he is not an idiot. To make contact.

div wrote:2.) You're in a long-term relationship, and at a club with your significant other. A <insert your significant other's opposite in whatever sexual preferance they have> walks up to your significant other (you are across the room, watching) and begins flirting. Lingering touches, laughing at everything each other says, and they're standing close enough to each other that if they weren't clothed, they'd be fucking. How do you feel about this, and how do you react?

I am a great deal more concerned about his feelings for me than I am about his flirtations with anyone else. One of the most fascinating things about my husband is watching him with people. He is an orater and a charmer from the word go. I love watching people's reactions to him. He does, however, have a much better sense of propriety than that and wouldn't in the first place, so this is a moot point with me.

Please note that at the time of this writing, it is 2:30am and I am too tired to think straight. Possible editing will occur when I'm not out of it.

junkie christ · Post by **junkie christ** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:24 pm

how bout we just go back to clubbing people and draggin em back to the cave...........

div · Post by **div** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:50 pm

Okay, I'm dredging this thread up again... new questions:

1.) We all know that the courts have decided that, if you are over 18, having sex with someone under 18 is illegal. I'm not even going to go into my thoughts on that particular topic, but my question is, does the same set of rules apply to flirting? If I, at 27, flirt with a 21 year old everyone thinks this is normal. But if I flirt with a 16 year old....

2.) You're sitting in a public place with a person of your preferred gender that you've just recently met. The two of you are flirting, and having a good time at it. His/Her best friend shows up, is introduced, and they begin flirting with you as well, very subtley. Their friend doesn't pick up on it, but you do. Is it "acceptable" to flirt with both at once? If you do, should you match suit and keep things just subtle enough that original object of your attention doesn't catch on?

MahoganyDawn · Post by **MahoganyDawn** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:22 pm

div wrote:Okay, I'm dredging this thread up again... new questions:

1.) We all know that the courts have decided that, if you are over 18, having sex with someone under 18 is illegal. I'm not even going to go into my thoughts on that particular topic, but my question is, does the same set of rules apply to flirting? If I, at 27, flirt with a 21 year old everyone thinks this is normal. But if I flirt with a 16 year old....

2.) You're sitting in a public place with a person of your preferred gender that you've just recently met. The two of you are flirting, and having a good time at it. His/Her best friend shows up, is introduced, and they begin flirting with you as well, very subtley. Their friend doesn't pick up on it, but you do. Is it "acceptable" to flirt with both at once? If you do, should you match suit and keep things just subtle enough that original object of your attention doesn't catch on?

Ohh! Good questions div-san! ;o)

1. Personally I think the same rules should apply to flirting. A lot, NOT ALL, of younger people have a hard time distinguishing between real attraction and flirting. They are not quite yet experienced with the boundries and often get their feelings hurt pretty badly when they cross the line. I've seen this happen on many occasions. There are also instances where the older person lacks the self control to keep the flirtations at JUST flirtations. Also a problem.

2. Ohh, this one is very difficult. When in this situation, from my personal experiences. I would recommend being friendly and borderline flirtatious with both. However, once you start developing any sort of feelings PAST that point for one or the other you need to make it very clear to BOTH parties who you are interested and who you are just being friendly with. Any sort of confusion in this area can lead to big trouble.

Another potential problem is that both friends develop feelings for you. In which case you have the other trouble of potentially ruining a friendship. Since friends are golden and relationships come and go.. if you find yourself in this situation.. I say stop flirting with BOTH of them. That situation is delicately balanced and can cause huge rifts in friendships if not handled carefully.

However if you have already developed feelings for one and not the other.. you should let everyone involved know exactly how you feel and hope for the best. Though typically no matter how this scenerio plays out.. it usually ends up in hurt feelings for someone involved. The only way this usually works out well is if all 3 people are just being friendly flirtatious and no one involved plans on acctually dating/fooling around with anyone else.

satanskitten · Post by **satanskitten** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:24 pm

as far as lines go....here's a couple that I used in jest at some parties that actually worked...of course I was drunk...

1) I want to fuck you like an animal.. (yes I know it's from a song, but does that really matter?)

2) I want to take you home, tie you up and keep you in my closet..

3)can I keep you?

I love flirting..it's so much fun...they pick on me at work cause I flirt with all the customers.

MahoganyDawn · Post by **MahoganyDawn** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:56 pm

What good is it to work at HT if you cant flirt with the spookys. ;o)

satanskitten · Post by **satanskitten** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:00 pm

good point...the problem is I always flirt with the teens...which is funny cause I look 18 and they think I'm one of them...SO I get picked on for being a cradle robber. and when I finally start dating someone my own age, they all seemed shocked. sheesh. I still flirt with the customers though. I've gotten lots of buttons and stickers and ring pops and numbers that way. Yet I've never called any of the numbers. little kids aren't my thang.

satanskitten · Post by **satanskitten** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:04 pm

div wrote:Okay, I'm dredging this thread up again... new questions:

1.) We all know that the courts have decided that, if you are over 18, having sex with someone under 18 is illegal. I'm not even going to go into my thoughts on that particular topic, but my question is, does the same set of rules apply to flirting? If I, at 27, flirt with a 21 year old everyone thinks this is normal. But if I flirt with a 16 year old....

hehe...I live in KY...16 is the age of consent here..the statutes say and I quote " A person is guilty of rape in the second degree if, being the age of 21 years or older, they engage in sexual intercourse with someone under the age of 16 years."

and the sad part is I had that memorized..I didn't need to look it up again.

Nexxus23 · Post by **Nexxus23** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:36 pm

div wrote:1.) We all know that the courts have decided that, if you are over 18, having sex with someone under 18 is illegal. I'm not even going to go into my thoughts on that particular topic, but my question is, does the same set of rules apply to flirting? If I, at 27, flirt with a 21 year old everyone thinks this is normal. But if I flirt with a 16 year old....

Flirt with whomever you want. Flirting doesn't get you thrown in the clink. Beware, however, that stat. rape laws exist for a reason- no touchy-touchy. No teenie-bopper's worth 5 to 10.
I'd love to say, "Don't hurt the little teenies' feelings!", but really, that part of being a teen. Crushes. Ups and downs and embarrassing social moments.
Call me a bitch, whatever. Smile, flirt, crush their hearts. They're like rubber- they bounce back. You've only got an itty-bitty teeny-weeny chance that they're packin' heat. :twisted:

div wrote:2.) You're sitting in a public place with a person of your preferred gender that you've just recently met. The two of you are flirting, and having a good time at it. His/Her best friend shows up, is introduced, and they begin flirting with you as well, very subtley. Their friend doesn't pick up on it, but you do. Is it "acceptable" to flirt with both at once? If you do, should you match suit and keep things just subtle enough that original object of your attention doesn't catch on?

If they don't have the respect for their "best friend" to leave his/her dating prospects alone, how would they respect me as an SO?
My conclusion is they wouldn't, so the first thing I'd do is find a tactful way to let them know they're not appreciated.

If all else fails, just flip 'em off or spit on 'em or something.

blindboy · Post by **blindboy** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:57 pm

div wrote:2.) You're sitting in a public place with a person of your preferred gender that you've just recently met. The two of you are flirting, and having a good time at it. His/Her best friend shows up, is introduced, and they begin flirting with you as well, very subtley. Their friend doesn't pick up on it, but you do. Is it "acceptable" to flirt with both at once? If you do, should you match suit and keep things just subtle enough that original object of your attention doesn't catch on?

flirt with both at once and go for some group love.

lequam · Post by **lequam** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:51 pm

Flirting is in my nature , but I rarely mean anything by it .
Subtle innuendo is better methinks , and I prefer to let the woman take the lead . Hell , can't go anywhere without her permission anyway.
As a gentle man , one should never proposition during the first meeting , I find that degrading towards the lady . You should let it take it's own course , if it happens , cool , if not , that's cool too , at least you made a friend and no one gets offended.

FalseAbsolution · Post by **FalseAbsolution** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:53 pm

What would be the best way for a typically shy guy to show intrest in someone...... i mean when you can bearly talk straight how are you suppose to flirt right?

And how bad does it look on someone to be nervous and try to flirt? because i tend to be a shy/nervous person if i'm intrested in you, unless i'm in a rare mood and we just click, and a guy needs to know if he's really got a lot to worry about.